Drone Research Team

Drones Research Team - General => Raj/Campbell investigation => : nekitamo December 29, 2008, 10:09:58 PM

: Part II : Pole Research Team
: nekitamo December 29, 2008, 10:09:58 PM
It's in Campbell, not Capitola!

Oops, I forgot the image:
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2792/pole16locationyc0.jpg)

Seems like pole #15 is further down the street... am I seeing things or this is it?!
: Re: Pole Research Team
: nekitamo December 29, 2008, 10:51:41 PM
Here is what I believe to be pole #15:

(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6226/pole15locationpj6.jpg)

And pole #16 again, another angle:

(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2092/pole16location2by8.jpg)

Here's the same location in Google Earth:

(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3442/rajlocationaz6.jpg)

Where are you, guys?  :o
Could someone check am I just seeing things or our search is finally over?!
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 29, 2008, 11:20:21 PM
Oh My God, let me check it.... :o
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 29, 2008, 11:25:51 PM
YOU GOT IT!!
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 29, 2008, 11:28:34 PM
(http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4759/polebl6.png)
: Re: Pole Research Team
: nekitamo December 29, 2008, 11:46:48 PM
Yes, that's it. Finally!

After spf33 confirmed my findings about orientation of the poles, I started checking just "horizontal" (west-east) streets in the area with my script, without even knowing where I am - even watched some TV from time to time. And then, suddenly I was facing pole #16 in streetview pane and instantly recognized it even in sun glare (no wonder, after all the time I spent looking at pic #16)!

Now I'm checking around for something familiar from other Raj's images... I will think about the implications of this find later...  :o
: Re: Pole Research Team
: Nemo492 December 29, 2008, 11:47:34 PM
T H A T ' S    I T ?!!

Why did you check Campbell ?
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 30, 2008, 12:01:20 AM
ABSOLUTLY AMAZING!! :o

Neki, beside the incredible work you've done on it, I must say that you also are an incredible lucky guy.... :o :o

Yeah! Finally that's it!!

Everything is here, the lamp, the cottonwood trees, poles 15 and 16; I'm currently searching for a house like the one we can see on pics 13 and 14.....
: Re: Pole Research Team
: nekitamo December 30, 2008, 12:17:13 AM
Why did you check Campbell ?

Actually, I started in Saratoga... didn't know I finished all the way in Campbell until I zoomed out.
: Re: Pole Research Team
: nekitamo December 30, 2008, 12:24:30 AM
Neki, beside the incredible work you've done on it, I must say that you also are an incredible lucky guy.... :o :o

Not from my experience :)
There are not that many "horizontal" W-E streets in the area, and I was checking just those after seeing spf33's reply in number's thread today. A bit of luck, I admit... but also tons of previous research that we did telling me what to look for.
: Re: Pole Research Team
: Nemo492 December 30, 2008, 12:29:04 AM
We can ask Frank or Tom to shoot a serie of photos,
it should be a 7 miles drive from Saratoga...
they could also check the pole number with binoculars..
: Re: Pole Research Team
: 10538 December 30, 2008, 12:29:24 AM
It looks to me that Neki did indeed nail it.  Woo hoo! Neki !!!
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 30, 2008, 12:33:25 AM
I still have a doubt, because the trees are not that high,
I find it difficult to match a white wooden angle for a house,
and the lamp + transversal bar of the pole are not similarly aligned...
I have no doubt; anyway Frank will surely check it on the spot.
For the pict 18, 13 and 14, I have a theory:
-13 and 14: All the houses along the Timber Cove Dr are Wooden made, there are also cottonwood trees over there.
- 18: There are Sequoia trees all along the Highway 17, just below Timber Cove Dr.
: Re: Pole Research Team
: Nemo492 December 30, 2008, 12:38:11 AM
from Frank :
"Tom is closer, just talked to him, 3:12 pm our time. He is on his way over to Campbell? Looks like an industrial area? Is the trees & streetlights there?"
: Re: Pole Research Team
: Nemo492 December 30, 2008, 12:42:42 AM
10538, would you feel OK to speak with Tom on the phone
while he's on the spot ?
: Re: Pole Research Team
: Diouf December 30, 2008, 12:46:06 AM

Wow !!!    Holy guacamole !!

Wordless Neki !!!

Hats off !!
: Re: Pole Research Team
: Nemo492 December 30, 2008, 12:48:56 AM
Yes ! and now we have a(nother) liar to deal with,
"because he was protecting his family, fiancee", etc....
Would he still report to The capitola Sentinel, if he lived in Campbell ?
or would that be part of a (complex) effort to cover his tracks..
: Re: Pole Research Team
: Diouf December 30, 2008, 12:52:36 AM

Sure Nemo, see what you mean ....*sighs*
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 30, 2008, 12:54:08 AM
The challenge now is to find the house in pict13 and 14....
: Re: Pole Research Team
: 10538 December 30, 2008, 12:57:19 AM
10538, would you feel OK to speak with Tom on the phone
while he's on the spot ?

Yes I am available.
: Re: Pole Research Team
: nekitamo December 30, 2008, 12:58:33 AM
It could get interesting if some shots were taken from someone's backyard and not public area...
: Re: Pole Research Team
: 10538 December 30, 2008, 12:58:55 AM
The challenge now is to find the house in pict13 and 14....
Yes, OTF and I are looking for it now.

: Re: Pole Research Team
: dixonf December 30, 2008, 01:13:11 AM
Is the streetlight around?
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 30, 2008, 01:22:05 AM
Yes, the streetlight is here:
(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9206/polestreetgn9.png)

with on the left the pole n°15
: Re: Pole Research Team
: onthefence December 30, 2008, 02:08:54 AM
Congratulations Nekitamo!

Looking for the building in PIC14, and the distance up to PICT15 (43 seconds by EXIF). Assuming that the person could run as fast as a fast football player 300ft per 10 seconds (1290 ft in 43 seconds), here is a perimeter that the house should be within if the EXIF and "on-foot" story is true:

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/onthefence55/distances.jpg)
: Re: Pole Research Team
: HPO December 30, 2008, 02:13:36 AM
YYEEEESSSS !!!!! ,Neki your the man  :D  :D

I had visitors today so I missed all the fun LOL

_______

But indeed we have another liar on our hands  ???
: Re: Pole Research Team
: dixonf December 30, 2008, 02:38:10 AM
100% on the pole
: Re: Pole Research Team
: 10538 December 30, 2008, 04:08:49 AM
Yes, this revelation puts some serious doubt onto the entire drone case.  I could see Chad lieing but not Raj. 

One thing that does work in this is the time stamp on the exif.  I had been rehashing some angle measurements in this thread http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=506.0 (http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=506.0) .  It turns out those measurements were pretty darn accurate.  Spf and I did the same thing with the pict 13 and 14.  Going by that, the building is narrowed down even further.  It could be that 13 and 14 were taken at the apartments across the tracks or in the trailer park.

The PI said he will go check out those locations tomorrow.

: Re: Pole Research Team
: Nemo492 December 30, 2008, 04:09:29 AM
(http://ovnis-usa.com/images/The Pole Found 001_small.jpg)

higher resolution :
http://ovnis-usa.com/images/The Pole Found 001.jpg
: Re: Pole Research Team
: 10538 December 30, 2008, 04:42:57 AM
Working with OTF trying to find the pict 13 and 14 location.  OTF discovered this possibility.

(http://home.comcast.net/~dl1027/files/object/Campbell.jpg)

Here is the apartments' website.  It's called Avalon Campbell.
http://www.avaloncommunities.com/avaloncore/nneigh.asp?commname=Avalon-Campbell (http://www.avaloncommunities.com/avaloncore/nneigh.asp?commname=Avalon-Campbell)

: Re: Pole Research Team
: nekitamo December 30, 2008, 09:50:43 AM
Working with OTF trying to find the pict 13 and 14 location.  OTF discovered this possibility.

(http://home.comcast.net/~dl1027/files/object/Campbell.jpg)

Here is th apartments' website.  It's called Avalon Campbell.
http://www.avaloncommunities.com/avaloncore/nneigh.asp?commname=Avalon-Campbell (http://www.avaloncommunities.com/avaloncore/nneigh.asp?commname=Avalon-Campbell)

This could be it, as those apartment buildings seem to be properly oriented to match this shadow in pict #14:
(http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6154/pict14orientationly9.jpg)

It could be one of the buildings, but there's no streetview from inside the complex so we'll probably have to wait for the PI's. Also, buildings are not white in Google streetview, but they are in satellite view and MS Live Search bird's eye view.

Also, I forgot to mention this - in the spirit of our "NDA" for this closed forum board, I leave the decision about publishing my find completely at the DRT's discretion.
Btw, I did mention it to my wife, but she was watching her favorite TV show and just said "Oh, really?" without even looking my way. :)
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 30, 2008, 10:24:38 AM
I don't think the house is located inside the Avalon Campbell complex, as it seems they are not wood made

(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9256/avaloncampbellhousesdr3.png)

Btw, I did mention it to my wife, but she was watching her favorite TV show and just said "Oh, really?" without even looking my way
Héhé! I haven't said a word.... :-X
: Re: Pole Research Team
: nekitamo December 30, 2008, 10:57:11 AM
More Avalon Campbell apartment images here... (http://www.apartments.com/partner/avsummary.aspx?page=avsummary&property=102736.118&p=AptHL&prvpg=1067&partner=AptHL&prvpg=1067&ahlp=184877&prvpg=1067#MenuItem)

(http://propimages.apartments.com/102736/118/PK010264.JPG)
: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 30, 2008, 11:24:28 AM
Some houses to check:

(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/3842/houses1fc4.png)
Three interesting houses here.

Edit:
Seems like Campbell apartments ARE wood made, good catch Neki. We are close!

: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 30, 2008, 11:45:21 AM
You also have a "360° virtual tour" of the Campbell apartment here (http://www.forrent.com/apartment-community-profile/999906320.php), including courtyards, pool.....
: Re: Pole Research Team
: onthefence December 30, 2008, 02:17:06 PM
Also, I forgot to mention this - in the spirit of our "NDA" for this closed forum board, I leave the decision about publishing my find completely at the DRT's discretion.

Just some notes of consideration:

My vote, I don't care how it is handled. Releasing the info now may even force the photographer to come clean, especially if he thinks that the PIs will be knocking on his door today ;)

: Re: Pole Research Team
: Nemo492 December 30, 2008, 02:20:53 PM

Also, I forgot to mention this - in the spirit of our "NDA" for this closed forum board, I leave the decision about publishing my find completely at the DRT's discretion.

Thanks Neki. Yes, we need a few days to work on the spot, etc...
But I see a nice possibility, for people to learn from this research,
which is to move Dec 19th thru Dec 22nd to the Public view...
Then moving more posts to the open as we keep searching.
This way, people would see the film unfolding, almost in real time
and understand/respect the good work.

This is why I did split the Topic, and now this
Pole Research Team  « 1 2 3 »
can be moved to public...
: Re: Pole Research Team
: 10538 December 30, 2008, 04:00:11 PM
The Avalon apartments do seem to be the likely spot for picts 13 and 14. 

(http://home.comcast.net/~dl1027/files/object/Campbell1.jpg)


The only part that does not fit is the photographer, according to the timestamps in the exif, would take picts 13 and 14, run across the tracks and down Kennedy about 200 feet, stop, turn around and then take pict 15. I guess that is possible but I'm having a hard time running the scenario through my mind.


: Re: Pole Research Team
: 10538 December 30, 2008, 04:33:00 PM

It could be one of the buildings, but there's no streetview from inside the complex so we'll probably have to wait for the PI's. Also, buildings are not white in Google streetview, but they are in satellite view and MS Live Search bird's eye view.

I also noticed apparent differing colors.  It seems that Birds Eye is much older than Streetview.  It is possible the apartments were recently painted.  Also remember the Raj pics had a reddish hue to them.  That may have distorted the color somewhat.  I have run the pict 14 though photo software and adjusted the color and the building corner does come out more gray.

Also, I forgot to mention this - in the spirit of our "NDA" for this closed forum board, I leave the decision about publishing my find completely at the DRT's discretion.
I was wondering if we might hold off going public until we have not only given the PIs a chance to investigate but also to digest this new information and put it into perspective against the Raj report and emails.

: Re: Pole Research Team
: elevenaugust December 30, 2008, 08:42:57 PM
I was wondering if we might hold off going public until we have not only given the PIs a chance to investigate but also to digest this new information and put it into perspective against the Raj report and emails.

I can even heard some people saying: "Neki is the hoaxer"!! ::)
I vote we take our time before release any info to public.
: Re: Pole Research Team
: HPO December 30, 2008, 10:36:37 PM
I was wondering if we might hold off going public until we have not only given the PIs a chance to investigate but also to digest this new information and put it into perspective against the Raj report and emails.

I can even heard some people saying: "Neki is the hoaxer"!! ::)
I vote we take our time before release any info to public.


Yes, with their way of reasoning their is a good change that they suspect Nekitamo after release  ::)
The only downside I see when not releasing the rest of this topic, is that the rest of the DRT forum members are kept in the dark.
Is it an idea to give some trusted members an PM about this new info?
: Re: Pole Research Team
: spf33 December 31, 2008, 12:01:39 AM
It's in Campbell, not Capitola!

holy crap!  nice job!
little late to the party, guess i should have logged in last night...


: Re: Pole Research Team
: spf33 December 31, 2008, 02:26:50 AM
this is roughly where the drone would have been:

(http://www.divshare.com/img/6213200-32a.jpg)
: Re: Pole Research Team
: Nemo492 December 31, 2008, 02:34:35 AM
...above a reflective white roof-top...
: Re: Pole Research Team
: spf33 December 31, 2008, 04:28:24 AM
hpo drone model imported into google earth looking down kennedy ave, facing west. 
pole  height ~40', drone altitude ~110'
drone in raj pic16 position:

(http://www.divshare.com/img/6213966-d72.jpg)
: Re: Pole Research Team
: spf33 December 31, 2008, 04:48:15 AM
...above a reflective white roof-top...

well, since nekitamo's gonna get all the heat anyway... ;)

Aug 5, 2008, 8:18pm, spf33 wrote:

"...some sort of roofing, some sort of shiny metallic hvac on top of a building?"

though depending on how recent these sat images are, i'm not seeing too many things that could reflect sunlight or even ambient light up to the drone at that sun angle. 
maybe a windshield from a truck...dunno.
: Re: Pole Research Team
: onthefence December 31, 2008, 02:18:28 PM
...above a reflective white roof-top...

well, since nekitamo's gonna get all the heat anyway... ;)

Aug 5, 2008, 8:18pm, spf33 wrote:

"...some sort of roofing, some sort of shiny metallic hvac on top of a building?"

though depending on how recent these sat images are, i'm not seeing too many things that could reflect sunlight or even ambient light up to the drone at that sun angle. 
maybe a windshield from a truck...dunno.

Maybe you are both talking about two different things:
: Re: Pole Research Team
: spf33 December 31, 2008, 05:51:30 PM
Maybe you are both talking about two different things:
  • The underside of the drone is well lit probably because of the white rooftops
  • The shadow directions on the drone cannot be explained by a mirrored surface on the ground since none can be found



i can accept that the lighter colored rooftop could be contributing somewhat to the overall lightening of the drone bottom. 
but i don't discount the possibility that some sort of reflected light is possibly obliterating the arm "missing shadow";

(http://www.divshare.com/img/6216598-f54.jpg)

or are you talking about the dark colored horizontal shadow on part 15 (which i'm not convinced is a shadow)? 
: Re: Pole Research Team
: onthefence December 31, 2008, 06:08:27 PM
or are you talking about the dark colored horizontal shadow on part 15 (which i'm not convinced is a shadow)? 

It is part 15's dark area that confuses me.

I don't think we can all come to a conclusion about what pieces cast the shadows on the drone in the raj pics, can we?
: Re: Pole Research Team
: spf33 December 31, 2008, 06:39:33 PM

I don't think we can all come to a conclusion about what pieces cast the shadows on the drone in the raj pics, can we?

shadows?

(http://www.divshare.com/img/6216844-fea.jpg)

that dark rectangular area on part 15 always seemed to me to be just a darker colored material with a change in specular highlights due to that planes orientation to the sun.

pic16 to pic17:

(http://www.divshare.com/img/6216867-44d.gif)

a more extreme example than what's happening here, but the idea is the same:

(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2599/raj1617hilitejz4.gif)
: Re: Pole Research Team
: spf33 December 31, 2008, 06:49:01 PM
...but now that i'm looking at it.  the left side of part 15 doesn't look like it has a darker
middle area.

ok, i'm probably wrong and that area is (supposed to be) a shadow.

(http://www.divshare.com/img/6216908-d41.jpg)
: Re: Pole Research Team
: 10538 December 31, 2008, 08:33:11 PM
a more extreme example than what's happening here, but the idea is the same:

(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2599/raj1617hilitejz4.gif)

This illustrates what I think may be happening.  Also add some tilt backwards increases the effect.

: Re: Pole Research Team
: Endzone January 01, 2009, 08:33:33 AM
Wow, late to the show myself but wow, great job on this one!!!!! Finally we get the illusive pole!!!! A lot of info will come from this.
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: 10538 January 01, 2009, 11:53:25 PM
Hey Endzone,

Pretty exciting stuff, eh.  I made this from Google streetview.  Sorry I'm not a better graphics artist.

(http://home.comcast.net/~dl1027/files/object/Pole2.jpg)

: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: onthefence January 02, 2009, 03:44:10 AM
Eventually it would be nice to see the pole in similar lighting conditions to PICT16, as well as other times of day to ensure that all shadows under the crossbar are not just oil stains.

The following photo is late at night (and I had to brighten it up) from this image (http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound001.jpg).

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/onthefence55/ThePoleFound001_highlighted.jpg)

I just want to ensure that assumptions made about shadows on the pole in PICT16 are correct.

As well, the pole is angled, I'm not completely sure this has any impact on the shadows though.
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: Arkhangels January 06, 2009, 04:10:55 AM
If you guys are considering that the pole is bend like OTF measured, you should consider it in all the three axis. It appears to me that it falls in at least two different directions.
 :(
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: onthefence January 06, 2009, 04:16:37 AM
If you guys are considering that the pole is bend like OTF measured, you should consider it in all the three axis. It appears to me that it falls in at least two different directions.
 :(

What kind of equipment and methods should be used to properly measure this?

And, would it even matter?
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: Arkhangels January 06, 2009, 04:22:51 AM
I dunno... when you guys were measuring distances and angles to match the shadows in the drone and pole, the tilt was important right?
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: 10538 January 06, 2009, 05:13:42 AM
I had been saying for more than a year that the pole was likely tilted.  One look at the angle of the power lines and the poor angle of the support cable (now we know it's because there is a drive way there) was enough evidence for me.  Too many people jumped to conclusions as usual.  It's leaning just as I imagined it.

: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: nekitamo January 06, 2009, 12:04:12 PM
Well, I'm afraid pole tilt was completely irrelevant for my 3D reconstruction. It could have been on a very steep slope, but it wouldn't change a thing because sun angle in software I used wasn't determined automatically, based on time and date (like in spf33's 3D Studio Max) but manually, however you want it to be (including some impossible angles, i.e. from bellow). So all I did was model the pole, adjusted the camera to match exact perspective in Raj's image and then tweaked my "sun" angle until crossbar shadow on the pole looked exactly the same as Raj's - I didn't even use any kind of ground surface until later, for some other views of the scene.

So what I'm trying to say is that pole tilt could play important role in determining exact time of day, but IMO it won't help much in explaining drone shadows because drone's orientation toward the sun in pic16 is locked by its relationship with the upper part of the pole, no matter how tilted or not - unless you're implying there was also some other, ground level related light source...
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: spf33 January 06, 2009, 02:46:26 PM
can't find the image right now, but i did some tests a while ago and found any titling
east\west didn't really affect that crossbeam shadow.  revisiting that scene, with the proper tilt, is on the list. 

i'm having bigger problems with both pics15 and 13\14.
the drone isn't matching light and shadow angles very well, if at all.

fairly busy with work, so things are extra slow going.

: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: 10538 January 06, 2009, 05:33:46 PM
I was thinking about the path of the drone.

(http://home.comcast.net/~dl1027/files/object/Campbell16.jpg)

Seems to me if real it may have been interested in electrical power.  Notice how it follows the light rail tracks (light rail is electric), goes to pole 15 then follows the power lines (the power lines from pole 15 go down Kennedy) to pole 16/17 and then leaves.

: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: spf33 January 06, 2009, 05:56:41 PM
in response to frank's tree height email, fwiw:

(http://www.divshare.com/img/6256108-cfe.jpg)

don't know if this helps at all as most of the avalon trees look to be about the same height.

this is based on 528 being the building with the drain.

but the deeper i look into this, combined with considering the level of error tolerance, that drain could be on any of the bldgs that are oriented the same as 528.

i'm beginning to think there is not enough shadow info in pic14 to accurately predict which building. and there are too many slight angle variables between reality and what i end up looking at filtered through google earth, google maps, live.maps and finally 3ds max, if that makes any sense.



: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: 10538 January 06, 2009, 06:18:58 PM
Makes perfect sense to me Spf.  I came to the same conclusion, too much room for error in the shadows.  My analysis points to bldg 512 but I'm not sure.
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: Avalon February 18, 2009, 11:48:16 PM
I was thinking about the path of the drone.

(http://home.comcast.net/~dl1027/files/object/Campbell16.jpg) 

Seems to me if real it may have been interested in electrical power.  Notice how it follows the light rail tracks (light rail is electric), goes to pole 15 then follows the power lines (the power lines from pole 15 go down Kennedy) to pole 16/17 and then leaves.

Interesting thoughts about the possible trajectory. I suspect it was a little different though. I drove down Kenney today and in Raj's last picture there is a type of tree that has pine type needles. I'll drive down Kennedy again, but today when I did I only noticed one such tree that may have been that tree and that was all the way toward the end of the street almost where it meets Winchester. When I looked at the pictures and considered the lay out of the street, I had the impression that the craft had taken off over Winchester.

Edit to fix quote box
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: 10538 February 19, 2009, 06:07:16 PM
Knowing the exact spots of all the photos, this representation of the path of the drone is pretty accurate.  The only adjustment I would make would be the last photo pic 18.  The drone may not be as far away as the freeway.

One curious point is it appears to go toward the light rail station then follows the light rail lines, then follows the power lines and then returns in the direction it came.

: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: Avalon February 19, 2009, 08:14:51 PM
I see now.

What is fairly interesting is that you can probably track the course of Raj as well now. Like I was saying, you there are only three exits to the complex, and where he snapped the first two pictures is about as far from any of the exits as you can get. He would have had to run about a city blocks worth before he took the next picture.

Anyway, great work. Thanks for helping to catch me up.
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: onthefence February 19, 2009, 08:32:13 PM
What is fairly interesting is that you can probably track the course of Raj as well now. Like I was saying, you there are only three exits to the complex, and where he snapped the first two pictures is about as far from any of the exits as you can get. He would have had to run about a city blocks worth before he took the next picture.

I think that we have come to a conclusion in other threads here that the photographer must have been on a bicycle or motorized vehicle to explain the timing between each of the shots defined in the photo EXIF. The speed for running those distances is that of an Olympic athlete, and even if "Raj" was such an athlete, I'm not so sure he could stop and turn around to take the picture then run to the next spot.
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: BigFnTuna February 19, 2009, 09:01:18 PM
I think that we have come to a conclusion in other threads here that the photographer must have been on a bicycle or motorized vehicle to explain the timing between each of the shots defined in the photo EXIF. The speed for running those distances is that of an Olympic athlete, and even if "Raj" was such an athlete, I'm not so sure he could stop and turn around to take the picture then run to the next spot.

I'm glad you brought this up as I was just now trying to figure out how much time it would take to get from spot to spot...  There is the train station right there, would it be possible for someone to snap a photo, hop on the train, get off at Kennedy Ave and continue on?  Also that station(Winchester) has trains stop every 10-15 mins, which also is connected directly to Lockheed and Moffett Field.

Tuna
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: onthefence February 19, 2009, 09:08:30 PM
There is the train station right there, would it be possible for someone to snap a photo, hop on the train, get off at Kennedy Ave and continue on?  Also that station(Winchester) has trains stop every 10-15 mins, which also is connected directly to Lockheed and Moffett Field.

Here are some details of the train times:
  http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=534.msg5313#msg5313
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: BigFnTuna February 19, 2009, 09:24:32 PM
Here are some details of the train times:
  http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=534.msg5313#msg5313

Thanks, I didn't even see that thread.  Maybe a coordinated effort?  Someone inside the complex and someone on Kennedy Ave?

Tuna
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: Avalon February 19, 2009, 09:56:27 PM
I think that we have come to a conclusion in other threads here that the photographer must have been on a bicycle or motorized vehicle to explain the timing between each of the shots defined in the photo EXIF. The speed for running those distances is that of an Olympic athlete, and even if "Raj" was such an athlete, I'm not so sure he could stop and turn around to take the picture then run to the next spot.

I'm glad you brought this up as I was just now trying to figure out how much time it would take to get from spot to spot...  There is the train station right there, would it be possible for someone to snap a photo, hop on the train, get off at Kennedy Ave and continue on?  Also that station(Winchester) has trains stop every 10-15 mins, which also is connected directly to Lockheed and Moffett Field.

Tuna

Good thinking about the train, but actually it wouldn't have worked. As Raj took photo's 13 and 14 to his back is about a 12 foot, Ivy covered wall blocking the train from the complex. The next stop even if he got over is righ around campbell ave. which would have put him about the same distance away from photo 15 as he was when he boarded the train.

I think a fairly obvious hypothesis that we have over looked is that he snapped 13 and 14 and hopped into his his car and drove to kennedy to snap pictures 15. In fact, when I think about the lay out of the apartment, and knowing which apartments face the direction the drone was supposed to have flown in from, I've wondered why he would have run all the way to spot 13 to take the picture, but a plausible explanation is that he ran their because he was trying to get to his car in the parking lot...

Edit: Every time I think I've added a new piece of info I read somewhere else only to discover its already been thought of!
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: BigFnTuna February 19, 2009, 10:10:53 PM
Edit: Every time I think I've added a new piece of info I read somewhere else only to discover its already been thought of!

Same here!  There is a lot of brain power at work though!  But keep posting your thoughts, you never know when one could end up leading somewhere...

Tuna
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: onthefence February 19, 2009, 10:24:00 PM
Thanks, I didn't even see that thread. 

A few new threads have been released without announcing to show up in recent postings, all of them in this forum:
http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?board=41.0


Maybe a coordinated effort?  Someone inside the complex and someone on Kennedy Ave?

The EXIF implies one camera only, but that is not proven because no serial number was supplied with the EXIF.
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: MarsAve February 20, 2009, 11:20:29 PM
Nekitamo/ spf33 and all............the 2 Private Investigators...

This is absolutely amazing..............you scored big time for the total investigation that you did. I would never had the patience, nor the expertise on a computer, to even think of this stuff....being over 50yrs old,,I feel like a Dunce - from what all of you all have accomplished. Excellent stuff,,,,,,, ;D

Admins: any chance this will be picked up by the news channels and interviews being done...Follow up interviews from the original stuff on TV? Maybe it'll bring more ideas or witnesses.....

Any comments from LMH or she out of the picture on this?
MarsAve
: Re: Part II : Pole Research Team
: GORT March 07, 2009, 03:17:26 AM
I work on rooftop's quite a bit.Even on a partly cloudy day the sun's reflection is intense enough you still need sunglasse's.My 2 cent's if it will help on the lighting issue's.I'm amazed at the location of the tele/power pole.I live about 4 mile's from location.Thank's to drone member's for excellent work.