Drone Research Team

WITNESSES => Drone related? => : Douglas December 22, 2010, 07:50:05 AM

: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas December 22, 2010, 07:50:05 AM
I decided to repost these Lazar videos.  Make your own mind as to his credibility.

Zeta Reticuli Aliens: Robert Lazar 1 of 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Pc2aLM3jY#)

UFOs & Area 51: The Bob Lazar Video - Alien Technology (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJolFbj8nc4#)

I don't think that Mr. Friedman has looked deeply into Lazar's whole history.  He comes to his conclusion by only looking at the surface.
Ref:
http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=articles&fdt=1997.12.15 (http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=articles&fdt=1997.12.15)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: onthefence December 22, 2010, 10:51:03 PM
This 1991, 40 minute video details Lazar's information that he read in the US Government UFO/Alien Briefing books that were in the briefing room at S-4 in 1988. Riveting to watch. Who the aliens are, where they're from, etc.

UFOs & Area 51: The Bob Lazar Video - Alien Technology (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJolFbj8nc4#)

Thanks for that video link Douglas.

The whole thing fascinated me, especially these two "CARET" related items:

Strange writing mentioned at the 27:22 mark
"At one point in time when the disk was energized, one of the archways became transparent and you could see the area outside of it just if the archway was a window. After the panel had been transparent for a while, a form of writing which was unlike alphabetic scientific or mathematical symbols I had ever seen began to appear on the transparent archway, and I was never informed as to how all of this was achieved."


Invisibility mode mentioned at 31.36 mark:
"When gravity field is on ... the disk can't be seen from any vantage point , and for all practical purposes is invisible. "
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: iamiamiam December 23, 2010, 01:38:47 AM
Here's Bob's own comments on his background and address to the skeptics. People associate Bob with John Lear who has some way-out there opinions... yet clearly Bob is more reserved than John.  His limited relationship with John becomes clear in this video. Scientists too can have healthy, humourous friendships with people - all types of people with all types of opinions ;)

Area 51 Revisited Part 2 - Bob Lazar at C2C 15th nov 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaGS-e98KNQ#)

Listen to Bob speak throughout these videos- he is clearly technically minded. Global disinfo campaigns don't happen? BS! Look at the shit thrown at Julian Assange. Imagine what would happen to him if he tried to speak out 20 years ago and had no means such as the internet to easily distribute his message and the evidence wasn't handed to him on a CD.

---------------------------------------------------------
Now, to my knowledge, the Ununpentium 115 isotope described by Bob has not yet been synthesised. Skeptics suggest this indicates Bob's claims are false.
Listen to Bob's comments here:
Area 51 Revisited Part 6 - Bob Lazar at C2C 15th nov 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6gwfdIFO_g#)

Wrong. The scientific case for his claim regarding this element is still out and more substantial experiment, material testing and analysis will be required.

http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.c....ead=5137&page=1 (http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.c....ead=5137&page=1)

For more background, there is a balanced write upof element 115 here:
'Element 115 also falls in the center of the theoretical island of stability. The most stable isotope of ununpentium is predicted to be Uup-299, containing the theorized "magic number" of 184 neutrons. The most neutron rich isotope to date is Uup-288, which contains only 173 neutrons...
There is much debate regarding the possibility of a stable isotope of element 115. The element is expected to lie within the island of stability and recent results have confirmed its existence (see ununquadium). The recent synthesis of two isotopes of ununpentium has been taken to suggest that the existence of a stable isotope is unlikely. However, many critics fail to appreciate the nature of closed magic shells. In particular, most people focus solely on the much-talked-about N=184 shell. It should be pointed out that this is not the only closed magic neutron shell. Calculations have indicated a closed deformed magic shell at N=196 and a spherical closed shell at N=228. '
http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/42248 (http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/42248)

One should be aware of the statistical / probabilistic limitations of heavy nucleon experiment wrt to confirmation and refinement of theoretical models and related calculations/ predictions as to islands of stability. With these aspects in mind, my statement above in terms of 'the case is still out' for Uup115 are valid.

'...a sufficiently stable isotope is not known at this time that would allow chemical experiments to confirm its position. It was first observed in 2003 and only about 30 atoms of ununpentium have been synthesized to date, with just 4 direct decays of the parent element having been detected. Four consecutive isotopes are currently known, 287-290Uup, with 289Uup having the longest measured half-life of ~220 ms, although the isotope 290Uup may well have an even longer half-life (only a single decay has been measured leading to poor accuracy).'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununpentium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununpentium)

Interestingly for Element 115 (=the number of protons), an up-to-date view of the island of stability from the American Physical Society is shown here:
http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/hires/six-new-isotopes.jpg (http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/hires/six-new-isotopes.jpg)
http://physics.aps.org/view_image/3539/large/1 (http://physics.aps.org/view_image/3539/large/1)
http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/hires/nuclearmissi.jpg (http://cdn.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/hires/nuclearmissi.jpg)
http://physics.aps.org/viewpoint-for/10.1103/PhysRevLett.104.142502 (http://physics.aps.org/viewpoint-for/10.1103/PhysRevLett.104.142502)

Here are some other articles of interest:
'Discovery could challenge established theory of the nucleus'
http://www.physorg.com/news202020721.html (http://www.physorg.com/news202020721.html)
http://www.physorg.com/news199711994.html (http://www.physorg.com/news199711994.html)

'Six new isotopes of the superheavy elements discovered
Information gained from the new isotopes will contribute to a better understanding of the theory of nuclear shell structure, which underlies predictions of an "Island of Stability," a group of long-lasting isotopes thought to exist amidst a sea of much shorter-lived, intrinsically unstable isotopes of the superheavy elements...

Ellison says, "In the grand scheme, the theoretical predictions were pretty good" when the actual measurements were compared to the decay properties predicted by modern nuclear models. "But there were small-scale interesting differences."

In particular, the heaviest new isotopes, those of 114 and copernicium, showed smaller energies associated with the alpha decay than theory predicts. These discrepancies can be used to refine the theoretical models used to predict the stability of the superheavy elements.

As Gregorich puts it, "our new isotopes are on the western shore of the Island of Stability"�the shore that's less stable, not more. Yet the discovery of six new isotopes, reaching in an unbroken chain of decays from element 114 down to rutherfordium, is a major step toward better understanding the theory underlying exploration of the region of enhanced stability that is thought to lie in the vicinity of element 114�and possibly beyond.'

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-10-isotopes-superheavy-elements.html (http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-10-isotopes-superheavy-elements.html)

Nuclear missing link created at last: Superheavy element 117 (Update)
...The experiment produced six atoms of element 117. For each atom, the team observed the alpha decay from element 117 to 115 to 113 and so on ...
http://www.physorg.com/news189797683.html (http://www.physorg.com/news189797683.html)

More related information:
http://www.scidacreview.org/0704/html/unedf.html (http://www.scidacreview.org/0704/html/unedf.html)
http://www.scidacreview.org/0704/html/unedf1.html (http://www.scidacreview.org/0704/html/unedf1.html)
http://www.phys.utk.edu/news/2010/physics-teacher-09-17-2010.pdf (http://www.phys.utk.edu/news/2010/physics-teacher-09-17-2010.pdf)
In our solar system, the superheavy elements lie in a difficult, hard-to-reach realm - created only through experimental synthesis, being subject to a good degree of uncertainty. Great insights have already been made... and perhaps, there are more to come.
-------------------------------

Refer to Bob's claims on thermoelectric conversion in the alien craft, post the antimatter reaction process. This article on scientific developments related to thermoelectric conversion may be of interest:
http://www.physorg.com/news177761180.html (http://www.physorg.com/news177761180.html)
---------

Other pieces of information:
At approximately 4.40min into this (2009) interview Bob Lazar makes brief reference to a 'geo-organ' as described into an alleged MJ-12 Roswell autopsy document which can be read at:
http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ef&thread=8972&page=1 (http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ef&thread=8972&page=1)

In Ed Fouche's (1998) book, Alien Rapture, there are two separate MJ-12 documents which have not been seen elsewhere and are not available at majesticdocuments.com

The first of these is apparently part of the missing "Attachment D" first referenced in the Eisenhower Briefing Document. It is entitled "OPERATION MAJESTIC 12 PRELIMINARY ANALYTICAL REPORT, ATTACHMENT D, PART B, Section 3, Preliminary Autopsy of Extraterrestrial Biological Entity (s)" It is dated 5th July 1947 and purports to have been authored by Dr. Detlev Bronk at Roswell AAFB.

Read more: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ef&thread=8972&page=1#ixzz18t907Aut (http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ef&thread=8972&page=1#ixzz18t907Aut)

Area 51 Revisited Part 12 - Bob Lazar at C2C 15th nov 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8dPgSEOr0g#)

It would be interesting to know if Bob made this claim prior to 1997/1998 (he first went public in 1989). Did Bob make the claim prior to public release of Ed's Alien Rapture? I believe Col. Corso also made reference to a 'geo organ' in his 1997 book 'The Day After Roswell'. One to look into...


-------------

OTF's recent post raises the mathematical symbols seen by Bob Lazar. Given also his geo-organ comments, I wonder if there is a strong link to Roswell. I have previously noted the CARET LAP symbol similarity to the Roswell symbols described by Jesse Marcel Jr. I posted this on OMF:

Together with my comparison to the hydrogen wavefunctions and electron cloud patterns modelled in physics, there appears to be a very strong similarity between the CARET symbols and the Roswell I-beam symbols drawn and demonstrated by Jesse Marcel Jr.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/beams_symbols_compare.html (http://roswellproof.homestead.com/beams_symbols_compare.html)

Now watch the video report on Discovery Science: The World's Strangest UFO Stories. Roswell

Take particular note of part 2 and part 3 of this video below. It gives the witness account of M.D. Jesse Marcel Junior and his statements on the Roswell debris and the I-beam symbols discovered by his father in 1947. Stanton Friedman interviewed Major Jesse Marcel Senior as part of his Roswell investigation.

PART I
[DSC] WSUS - Roswell The Truth-1.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1BwJQw6FnE#)

PART II
[DSC] WSUS - Roswell The Truth-2.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHwEvsC0ev8#)

PART III
[DSC] WSUS - Roswell The Truth-3.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amrx9OaAJks#)

PART IV
[DSC] WSUS - Roswell The Truth-4.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVdNdXD6XuA#)

PART V
[DSC] WSUS - Roswell The Truth-5.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I5A4fRDLzk#)

In the same video, part 3, Dave Thomas reiterates USAF claims regarding Project Mogul that the funny symbols on the Roswell 'weather balloon' were actually scotch tape inlaid with symbols used for a certain type of toy. However Jesse Marcel Junior refutes the USAF claims and states that these symbols are NOT the same. Jesse shows his reproduction of the Roswell I-beam symbols. Beware the disinformation and fake symbols out there on the internet regarding these symbols. (See part 3 of the videos above, 6.10min onwards)

Jesse Marcel Jr's affadavit of the Roswell I-beam symbols is available online.
[Source: Karl Pflock, Roswell in Perspective, 1994.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/beams_symbols_compare.html (http://roswellproof.homestead.com/beams_symbols_compare.html)
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Marcel_Jr.html (http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Marcel_Jr.html)

More investigation brings up the claim that Jesse Marcel originally drew these symbols from memory on Sunday, July 6, 1947 after seeing the Roswell material presented by his father and he later made another rendition in 1989.

We'd have to ask Jesse Marcel Jr to verify the date that he first drew these symbols, but from the video above and the symbols shown in his affadavit, it's clear there is a strong match of the CARET symbols to his Roswell I-beam symbols.

More interesting reading here from Jesse Marcel Sr and other Roswell witnesses: 'The figures were composed of curved geometric shapes...' :o
http://www.sunrisepage.com/roswell/witnesses.pdf (http://www.sunrisepage.com/roswell/witnesses.pdf)
and here
http://www.sunrisepage.com/roswell/roswell.htm (http://www.sunrisepage.com/roswell/roswell.htm)

Just a reminder of that technological gift - Roswell:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_Incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_Incident)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: onthefence December 23, 2010, 05:45:12 PM
I decided to remove these Lazar videos.  His credibility is under reconsideration at this time.

Ref:
http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=articles&fdt=1997.12.15 (http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=articles&fdt=1997.12.15)

This one is a bit longer read, but just as important (IMO) if you want to know more:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070102072750/www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/synopsis.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070102072750/www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/synopsis.htm)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas December 23, 2010, 07:29:53 PM
I decided to remove these Lazar videos.  His credibility is under reconsideration at this time.

Ref:
http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=articles&fdt=1997.12.15 (http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=articles&fdt=1997.12.15)

This one is a bit longer read, but just as important (IMO) if you want to know more:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070102072750/www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/synopsis.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070102072750/www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/synopsis.htm)

I was aware of that website you ref. but I had not read that entry.  I now have and realize that the BL story is very complicated. 

I believe that BL padded his resume a bit and it's likely that he did some work at S-4.  Once BL padded his resume he has had to stick to the story.
 
The Teller reference probably carried too much weight with his S-4 employer.  They probably regret it now.

The events before and after the infamous Wed. night forays read true and very interesting.  Typical security stuff.

The Mariani connection is key to the BL story.

Thanks "A." for the update.  More to follow.

Douglas
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: onthefence December 24, 2010, 02:07:53 AM
UFOs & Area 51: The Bob Lazar Video - Alien Technology (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJolFbj8nc4#)

Also in this video, an interesting concept of when to expect another "visitation", at the 9:41 mark.
If the drones are zipping around, and hoping from one place to another (as described by Ted), possibly they will come back to Earth to check in someday. It may be only 5 days for them since their last visit, but for us it would be 50 years because of time issues and traveling fast due to gravity distortion.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon December 24, 2010, 03:53:57 AM
I was wondering...and I haven't found it yet after looking around:

Did anyone email/write or call Bob Lazar directly and ask his opinion of the dragonfly drones and Isaac/CARET?

I have followed Lazar over the years and he has a familiar ring to his account as Isaac does...

Just an observation, nothing directly implied mind you.

Thanks,
and Happy Holidays to All by the way!

Prosopon
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas December 24, 2010, 04:36:58 AM
UFOs & Area 51: The Bob Lazar Video - Alien Technology (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJolFbj8nc4#)

Also in this video, an interesting concept of when to expect another "visitation", at the 9:41 mark.
If the drones are zipping around, and hoping from one place to another (as described by Ted), possibly they will come back to Earth to check in someday. It may be only 5 days for them since their last visit, but for us it would be 50 years because of time issues and traveling fast due to gravity distortion.

It may be 50 years according to the traditional Einsteinian theories but  ET is able to travel in a hyper-dimension, therefore their return could be within much less time.

This is just my opinion.  I am not an expert on hyper-dimension travel at warp speed.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: danblast December 25, 2010, 05:50:00 PM
Prosopon, I emailed him twice and received no response. I had a couple of messages with Mr. Lear and he did not seem to believe in the drones. Which I was surprised at considering he believes in a soul catcher on the moon and other wacky stuff.

Bob Lazars website has been coming soon for two years now FWIW.

Interestingly they had a UFO marathon on the History Channel and the episode of UFO hunters and the Drones was on.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: onthefence December 25, 2010, 07:27:48 PM
I emailed him twice and received no response.
...
If you choose not to answer, you have still made an answer ;)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas December 25, 2010, 09:42:43 PM
I emailed him twice and received no response.
...
If you choose not to answer, you have still made an answer ;)

Bob Lazar states in one of the videos that he does not usually answer emails.  Same for LMH and many others.  The volume is just too large for these public figures.  Plus, Bob L. has really stuck his neck out on the UFO topic, so he is very careful as to what he will say.

We should note that Bob went public with his Area 51-S-4 revelations after the 'non' meeting with Dennis Mariani in the casino.  This event so frightened Bob that he felt he had to go public to protect his life.  Remember that Bob's security S-4 contact was Dennis M. and he has not been seen since. 

Ian Fleming or John Le Carre couldn't have written a better scenario than the events that night in the Las Vegas casino.

It reminded me of Lee Harvey Oswald trying to find his 'contact' in the Texas movie theater on the afternoon of Nov 22, 1963.  Recall that he sat next to five different people.  By then his handlers, the CIA, had cut him loose.  Typical,  when they want you eliminated.

Read this Ref. article if you desire these Lazar details I write about above:

Ref:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070102072750/www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/synopsis.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20070102072750/www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/synopsis.htm)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas December 26, 2010, 03:43:48 AM
[This is why Bob Lazar went public with his UFO information.]

Excerpt from Gene Huff report:

Summer 1989..

Finally, Dennis Mariani [of S-4 Security] contacted Bob and said he wanted to meet and speak with Bob on a "personal level". Bob set up the meeting at the Union Plaza casino in downtown Las Vegas. The meeting was set for 8 PM on Saturday night when there's be plenty of witnesses if anything bad happened. Joe Vaninetti happened to be in town from Los Alamos that weekend. We created a 'stealth plan' and Joe and I accompanied Bob down to the Union Plaza hotel.

http://gaming.unlv.edu/centennial/web/0263_0755_plaza.jpg (http://gaming.unlv.edu/centennial/web/0263_0755_plaza.jpg)


Bob entered first and, a short time later, Joe and I entered and sat down to play the slot machines as though we were tourists. Bob walked around and looked for Mariani, but at first he couldn't find him. Bob even paged him on the house phone. Finally, Bob saw Mariani approaching in a crowd of people and walked up to him. Mariani wouldn't make eye contact with Bob and walked on by as if Bob wasn't there. Bob also noticed another security man from S4 over by the wall on the other side of the crowd. Bob casually walked by Joe and I and told us what happened without looking at us or appearing to socialize with us. From a distance he then saw Mariani walk into another part of the casino.

Bob asked me to go into that other part of the casino with him, but to stay out of sight. He wanted someone else to be able to visually identify Dennis Mariani. We entered in a crowd and Bob pointed out Mariani, who was now sitting at a blackjack table. I went and hid behind a bank of slot machines behind Mariani. I was only about 20 feet from him and I had a clear view of him. He looked exactly as Bob had described him. Thirty five to forty years old, medium build, blonde hair and a tightly cropped blonde mustache.   This night he was also smoking a slender cigar.

Mariani's manner was quite curious. He was sitting between two very attractive,  buxom, women at the blackjack table, yet he would only look down at his cards and didn't seem to be enjoying himself. This is unusual behavior for someone in the festive casino atmosphere of a Saturday night in Las Vegas. Bob walked down the other side of the blackjack pit parallel to a long bar. Mariani looked up and his head followed Bob as Bob made that walk. Since this was the only time he looked up from his cards, especially considering the other available scenery, this indicated to me that he, indeed, knew who Bob was.

Bob walked around the blackjack pit and walked right up to Mariani and said, "Well, Dennis, you said you wanted to meet and here I am, now what's the deal?". Not only did Mariani not answer, he didn't even look at Bob or acknowledge his existence. Bob said, "Dennis, what the hell is going on, what is this shit?". Again, Mariani didn't acknowledge him.

Bob came over to me behind the slot machines and we quickly formulated a plan to follow him and try and get his license number or something along those lines. Mariani was only out of our sight for less than 15 seconds, but when we looked back, he was gone. We hurried through the casino in different directions looking for him. We even checked the restrooms, but he was nowhere to be found. We went back to the other part of the casino where Joe was sitting and asked him if anybody fitting Mariani's descripton had come that way. Joe said no one who looked like that had walked by his area.

 We could only surmise that maybe Mariani was there to speak on a personal level and that the other security guy that Bob had spotted was a surprise to everyone, including Dennis. No one has seen or heard anything from Dennis Mariani since that night.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: iamiamiam February 05, 2011, 01:47:56 PM
I have previously noted the CARET LAP symbol similarity to the Roswell symbols described by Jesse Marcel Jr. I posted this on OMF:

Together with my comparison to the hydrogen wavefunctions and electron cloud patterns modelled in physics, there appears to be a very strong similarity between the CARET symbols and the Roswell I-beam symbols drawn and demonstrated by Jesse Marcel Jr.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/beams_symbols_compare.html (http://roswellproof.homestead.com/beams_symbols_compare.html)

Now watch the video report on Discovery Science: The World's Strangest UFO Stories. Roswell

Take particular note of part 2 and part 3 of this video below. It gives the witness account of M.D. Jesse Marcel Junior and his statements on the Roswell debris and the I-beam symbols discovered by his father in 1947. Stanton Friedman interviewed Major Jesse Marcel Senior as part of his Roswell investigation.

PART II
[DSC] WSUS - Roswell The Truth-2.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHwEvsC0ev8#)

PART III
[DSC] WSUS - Roswell The Truth-3.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amrx9OaAJks#)

In the same video, part 3, Dave Thomas reiterates USAF claims regarding Project Mogul that the funny symbols on the Roswell 'weather balloon' were actually scotch tape inlaid with symbols used for a certain type of toy. However Jesse Marcel Junior refutes the USAF claims and states that these symbols are NOT the same. Jesse shows his reproduction of the Roswell I-beam symbols. Beware the disinformation and fake symbols out there on the internet regarding these symbols. (See part 3 of the videos above, 6.10min onwards)

Jesse Marcel Jr's affadavit of the Roswell I-beam symbols is available online.
[Source: Karl Pflock, Roswell in Perspective, 1994.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/beams_symbols_compare.html (http://roswellproof.homestead.com/beams_symbols_compare.html)
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Marcel_Jr.html (http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Marcel_Jr.html)

More investigation brings up the claim that Jesse Marcel originally drew these symbols from memory on Sunday, July 6, 1947 after seeing the Roswell material presented by his father and he later made another rendition in 1989.

We'd have to ask Jesse Marcel Jr to verify the date that he first drew these symbols, but from the video above and the symbols shown in his affadavit, it's clear there is a strong match of the CARET symbols to his Roswell I-beam symbols.


2010 video from Jesse Marcel Jr here. See 22min:20 sec into the video:
ROSWELL LEGACY - Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr. MD LIVE At the X-Conference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuo-jQPX8vU#)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 05, 2011, 05:07:35 PM
I can't seem to find an answer despite looking so I will ask a similar question as I had before and here's hoping someone here possibly knows:

Did anyone email or call or write to Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr. directly and ask him if the drone symbols looked liked what he saw back in 1947?

I do recall  that the usually sober-in-his-reply Stanton Friedman (and one of the first Roswell researchers) said the drones looked fake and resembled a lawn sprinkler but it seems logical that someone would have asked Dr. Marcel his opine.

Thank you,

~P
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: onthefence February 05, 2011, 06:33:52 PM
I can't seem to find an answer despite looking so I will ask a similar question as I had before and here's hoping someone here possibly knows:

Did anyone email or call or write to Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr. directly and ask him if the drone symbols looked liked what he saw back in 1947?

I do recall  that the usually sober-in-his-reply Stanton Friedman (and one of the first Roswell researchers) said the drones looked fake and resembled a lawn sprinkler but it seems logical that someone would have asked Dr. Marcel his opine.

Thank you,

~P

I didn't see anyone doing that before either, so I emailed Jesse about the CARET symbols. I will let you all know if I receive an answer.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas February 05, 2011, 09:03:42 PM
I can't seem to find an answer despite looking so I will ask a similar question as I had before and here's hoping someone here possibly knows:

Did anyone email or call or write to Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr. directly and ask him if the drone symbols looked liked what he saw back in 1947?

I do recall  that the usually sober-in-his-reply Stanton Friedman (and one of the first Roswell researchers) said the drones looked fake and resembled a lawn sprinkler but it seems logical that someone would have asked Dr. Marcel his opine.

Thank you,

~P

I didn't see anyone doing that before either, so I emailed Jesse about the CARET symbols. I will let you all know if I receive an answer.

I have met Stanton Friedman in person and have asked him questions.  He does have a habit of speaking brashly before exploring a subject thoroughly.  Also, Stanton has a certain agenda with UFOs and it's somewhat limited to the classic cases of the 1940s-50s.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 06, 2011, 03:53:19 AM
I have met Stanton Friedman in person and have asked him questions.  He does have a habit of speaking brashly before exploring a subject thoroughly.  Also, Stanton has a certain agenda with UFOs and it's somewhat limited to the classic cases of the 1940s-50s.


Hello Douglas and thanks for your reply.

I also have met Mr. Friedman years ago when he just started giving Roswell lectures at colleges and universities in the States.

As for your comment vis-a-vis his "certain agenda," could you possibly be more specific?

And as you say he has kept most - but not all - of his research activities limited to Roswell and Majestic 12 era content, which makes him more of an expert in those topics so to speak rather than spread himself too thin.

I would like to know more about what you believe his agenda is as I know you are a good researcher who does not make his statements lightly.

Also know that I am not defending the man, but he WAS a 'rocket scientist' at one time... ;D

Thanks much again,
~P
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 06, 2011, 04:14:02 AM
I can't seem to find an answer despite looking so I will ask a similar question as I had before and here's hoping someone here possibly knows:

Did anyone email or call or write to Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr. directly and ask him if the drone symbols looked liked what he saw back in 1947?

I do recall  that the usually sober-in-his-reply Stanton Friedman (and one of the first Roswell researchers) said the drones looked fake and resembled a lawn sprinkler but it seems logical that someone would have asked Dr. Marcel his opine.

Thank you,

~P

I didn't see anyone doing that before either, so I emailed Jesse about the CARET symbols. I will let you all know if I receive an answer.

My thanks to you OTF.

Someone of your stature & reputation here might get an answer.

I'm just wondering why nobody thought of it sooner if some posters here and elsewhere believed that the alien symbols really did look like the I-beam figures observed by the 11 year old Jesse in 1947.

I guess it goes to show that exhaustive examinations and speculations can entertain gaps in the researching process.

'What else might we have missed exploring since 2007' is my question and it's rather exciting that we can re-datamine while refining our fascinations.

Good action, OTF!

~P
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas February 06, 2011, 06:29:41 AM
I have met Stanton Friedman in person and have asked him questions.  He does have a habit of speaking brashly before exploring a subject thoroughly.  Also, Stanton has a certain agenda with UFOs and it's somewhat limited to the classic cases of the 1940s-50s.


Hello Douglas and thanks for your reply.

I also have met Mr. Friedman years ago when he just started giving Roswell lectures at colleges and universities in the States.

As for your comment vis-a-vis his "certain agenda," could you possibly be more specific?

And as you say he has kept most - but not all - of his research activities limited to Roswell and Majestic 12 era content, which makes him more of an expert in those topics so to speak rather than spread himself too thin.

I would like to know more about what you believe his agenda is as I know you are a good researcher who does not make his statements lightly.

Also know that I am not defending the man, but he WAS a 'rocket scientist' at one time... ;D

Thanks much again,
~P

Hi P...:

Stanton is a nice guy.  I admire him greatly.  But he has made strange statements about certain aspects of UFOlogy that are sort of a brush-off of the new and strange sightings in the last 20 years.

His only agenda seems to be his standard lecture which features sightings from decades ago.  He is an expert of Roswell, which is a good thing for sure.

He's my favorite UFO daddy.....;-))

Douglas
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: EVS February 07, 2011, 10:19:53 AM
I suggest you invite Stanton Friedman to take a look at the Drones. Maybe he will respond:

http://www.stantonfriedman.com/ (http://www.stantonfriedman.com/)

http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=stans_bio (http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=stans_bio)

fsphys@rogers.com

EVS
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 08, 2011, 03:00:39 AM
I personally have no interest in these high profile UFO PROFESSIONALS beliefs.  The inventory photo, portions of Isaac's account, and the Big Basin Drone still stand.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 08, 2011, 10:23:56 PM
EVS, we (yes we) have updated our blogsite and hope you visit.  Anyone else is also welcome.  It is time for us to speak of some things.  Since I have been cast as a liar, it will be up to the visitor to believe or not.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 09, 2011, 04:54:38 AM
EVS, we (yes we) have updated our blogsite and hope you visit.  Anyone else is also welcome.  It is time for us to speak of some things.  Since I have been cast as a liar, it will be up to the visitor to believe or not.
L E V I A T H A N

Pardon me sir, but I am more than a little bit confused.

I went over to your link and blog and have some questions.

This droneteam site right here has some specific and rather pointed purposes, that being to get to the truth of the drones and closely related phenomena. It is serious and not a joke which is much appreciated.

Could you answer a couple of questions with specifics of what you said to become more in focus for me?

(1.) If you say you are a hoaxer, then who is this 'we' you mention both here and on your blog?

(2.) Did you have help in building the Alabama Drone? Why would you need help in using a computer graphics program anyway is my thought? It is your use of the 'we' I am referring to in this regard and have to assume the 'we' was you and some other people involved since the dromnes appeared in 2007.

(3.) Also you say this: "time to speak of some things." What exactly are these things you allude to, and why should we listen?

I Sir do not know you to be the "liar" you said you were labeled with at all so I will assume you are speaking the truth, direct from your heart, and are not punking or pranking.

My thanks if you can clear this up in plain language,

~P

: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Nemo492 February 09, 2011, 11:40:32 AM
I do recall  that the usually sober-in-his-reply Stanton Friedman (and one of the first Roswell researchers) said the drones looked fake and resembled a lawn sprinkler...

He said they should fit in his grey basket.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 09, 2011, 03:43:11 PM
We are just that a group.  I have been labeled a hoaxer.  This was admitted to some time ago.  There was a group that had some interest in the original drone and still do.  This did expand to cover the entire saga.  I was very knew to 3D Programs and the first efforts were crude.  Our group had private interests in this subject and all had concerns and questions.  When LMH received our image we believed she would ignore the effort.  We were surprised to see her response.  As time goes by the things that we will speak of will be presented on the blog.  You do not have to listen that is your choice.  People with UFO interest and the Drones will have to make decisions on what comes forth on the blog.  We do not ask any one to believe or anything else.  We will us this blog as a better place for us to put forth some things.  Come, don't come that is up to you.  The Drones will not be the only subjects.  We do not feel compelled to explain anything, but to put forth certain things.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: onthefence February 14, 2011, 04:46:04 AM
Did anyone email or call or write to Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr. directly and ask him if the drone symbols looked liked what he saw back in 1947?

I have received a message back from Mr Jesse Marcel Jr.

He does not recognize the symbols from the CARET case. The symbols he recalls "were more geometric figures of various shapes that were not like line drawings but were solid".

Also, after being shown the curved parts from the Isaac photos, he said the I-beam he saw did not bear any resemblance to that.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 14, 2011, 05:28:10 PM
OUTSTANDING OTF and thank you!

I dove into the pictogram data on the I-Beam pieces years ago for another project and was quite amazed that someone said they bore a resemblance to the LAP and drone alien language.

Not at all in my estimation, or perhaps only one a wee tad if you look hard enough.

Same with the unique physical shapes of the CA Drones.

From my research on physical flying object shapes throughout history (I have been collecting various UFO books/tapes/paraphanalia since 1966) I personally saw no compelling correlation to the CA. drones as we have known them since 2007.

Yes I do know a regular very capable poster here has said that the drones have been sighted and recorded for a very, very long time but I don't mean to besmirch his opinion.

Mine just differs, that's all.

I am still looking that that hanger photograph that some have said bears further serious interest.

I went to the DRT link here but there were no listed size determinations made - just ratios and proportions and some very clear charts and work well done.

If anyone has something specific on that inventory photo could you please point it out to me or describe what makes this particular photo real or not?

Many thanks,

~P
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 15, 2011, 09:10:20 PM
We are considering doing this on a future Post on our Blog.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 16, 2011, 04:48:20 AM
We are considering doing this on a future Post on our Blog.
L E V I A T H A N

That is very nice to consider Gentlemen at LEVIATHANS!

Its just that your blog-site seems to be set up for artwork display and such with little room for hard evidence and peer review as currently displayed on this fine established Droneteam site.

There are not many comments on your site now unfortunately and I am wondering just how you all are intending to spread or reveal hard information versus created artwork which you have an admitted predilection to create.

Will this be a paradigm shift from the Group's past activities one wonders?

And since all of you in the LEVIATHAN Group are admitted hoaxers, and I believe those are your words and not meant to be a critique here, how do we know if what you intend to reveal is truthful or real and simply not another LEVIATHAN creation?

I hope you will bring your group's revelations here where a serious dialogue could be attained.

If that is something that the LEVIATHANS wants to accomplish now, that is - and would be appreciated I believe.

Again, I know I will visit for the artwork displayed there.

~P
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas February 16, 2011, 08:42:58 PM
OUTSTANDING OTF and thank you!


From my research on physical flying object shapes throughout history (I have been collecting various UFO books/tapes/paraphanalia since 1966) I personally saw no compelling correlation to the CA. drones as we have known them since 2007.

Yes I do know a regular very capable poster here has said that the drones have been sighted and recorded for a very, very long time but I don't mean to besmirch his opinion.

Mine just differs, that's all.


Many thanks,

~P

Dear Prosopon:

As to my research, I have publicly posted the results of my research that supports the idea that Drone type craft have been seen for a long time.

There is an entire topic thread devoted to these documents.

May I suggest that you post any information or documents that support your position that differs from mine.

Douglas

Thanks EVS:   Here is all of my historical research:

http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=123.0 (http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=123.0)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: EVS February 17, 2011, 01:37:23 AM
It's all here:

http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=123.0 (http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=123.0)

EVS
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas February 17, 2011, 02:39:16 AM
I thought I would repost this comment from Dr. Keith Edwards résumé from 2007 which idicates the US government is working on alien space craft parts:


Here is an excerpt from Dr. Keith Edwards' résumé that he posted on the Internet.  Keith removed the smoking-gun part of it after I emailed him in 2007.  Here is evidence that he worked on alien parts that the US Government has in it's possession.

Recent photo of Keith:(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Douglas606/Edwards.jpg)

The excerpt:

"I got doctorized at Georgia Tech in the venerable discipline of computer science. My old home page has been slowly rotting, but you can visit it to inspect the remains.

From there I moved on to Xerox PARC, where I'm a senior member of the research staff, and get to play with a bunch of the technologies that our government got from the small greys in the abductee-for-tech swap after Roswell.
[[That President Eisenhower approved in 1952 when he met face to face with extraterrestrials at Edwards Air Force Base in California.]]

In earlier past lives, I worked at SunSoft, Sun Microsystems Labs, and the now-defunct Olivetti Research Center (all on internships), and a bunch of places as a consultant, including the now-defunct NeXT Computer.

Going all the way back, I was born in Fredricksburg, Virginia, and grew up in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I'm a leo and my favorite color is blue."

The US government/private industry is up to it's eyeballs with work on alien technology.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas February 17, 2011, 03:31:28 AM
It's all here:
http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=123.0 (http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=123.0)
EVS

Thanks Erik...I added it to my post.  Take care.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 17, 2011, 04:00:45 AM
Re: Historical Reports & Citations from Books
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 11:32:18 pm »
Quote (Douglas)
Historical Drone Sightings - 1800s & 1900s

“Some of these are from the days before airplanes, so the person is doing his best to describe what he sees in the sky. Come to your own conclusions as to what these sightings are. I believe they are early Drone reports...but that is just MHO.”



My sincere apologies if I unintentionally bruised sensibilities, Douglas.

Of course I did indeed read your excellent postings and book/sighting report analyses on this dronteam site (at the links provided by yourself and EVS.)

They were read by myself years ago when first posted and once again recently to see if I had missed anything from before.

I arrived at my own conclusions then and still hold them after this recent review.

I gave my opinion here briefly not as a challenge nor contest.

You did say this did you not:
“Come to your own conclusions as to what these sightings are.”

If this site allows PM’s perhaps we could share our thoughts in private as my mind is not closed on this subject.

~P
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 17, 2011, 05:16:24 AM
We are not concerned with the belief of all.  We will not argue with your comments.  We will place on our blog things that you can take or leave.  In addition we will not seek to improve our standing.  When time permits we will place things that may or not be of interest to you.  The comments area will be made private.

Above all we will not come to any web site to present our knowledge. Also it is far beyond the ability of any to insult us.  So why waist the time.  Some here do not like us and we have no concern about that.  This is the last time we will waist our time with this.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas February 17, 2011, 05:44:53 AM
Re: Historical Reports & Citations from Books
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 11:32:18 pm »
Quote (Douglas)
Historical Drone Sightings - 1800s & 1900s

â??Some of these are from the days before airplanes, so the person is doing his best to describe what he sees in the sky. Come to your own conclusions as to what these sightings are. I believe they are early Drone reports...but that is just MHO.â?



My sincere apologies if I unintentionally bruised sensibilities, Douglas.

Of course I did indeed read your excellent postings and book/sighting report analyses on this dronteam site (at the links provided by yourself and EVS.)

They were read by myself years ago when first posted and once again recently to see if I had missed anything from before.

I arrived at my own conclusions then and still hold them after this recent review.

I gave my opinion here briefly not as a challenge nor contest.

You did say this did you not:
â??Come to your own conclusions as to what these sightings are.â?

If this site allows PMâ??s perhaps we could share our thoughts in private as my mind is not closed on this subject.

~P

P:
You are welcome to contact me privately by PM.  Just click on my name and it will lead you to my profile.  Send PM to me there or post your thoughts in a public comment. I'm very interested in your conclusions whatever they might be.

Douglas

: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: iamiamiam February 18, 2011, 08:30:02 AM
Did anyone email or call or write to Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr. directly and ask him if the drone symbols looked liked what he saw back in 1947?

I have received a message back from Mr Jesse Marcel Jr.

He does not recognize the symbols from the CARET case. The symbols he recalls "were more geometric figures of various shapes that were not like line drawings but were solid".

Also, after being shown the curved parts from the Isaac photos, he said the I-beam he saw did not bear any resemblance to that.

OUTSTANDING OTF and thank you!

I dove into the pictogram data on the I-Beam pieces years ago for another project and was quite amazed that someone said they bore a resemblance to the LAP and drone alien language.

Not at all in my estimation, or perhaps only one a wee tad if you look hard enough.

I don't mean to besmirch his opinion.

Mine just differs, that's all.

Hmm... thanks OTF. I wonder if Jesse means solid 'black' or solid 'white'? Perhaps you can email Jesse Marcel Jr the following comparison of symbols?

 My opinion, which I stated previously was that the CARET / LAP symbols seemed to have a strong similarity to the Roswell symbols redrawn / recalled by Jesse from memory - years after his father showed him pieces of the Roswell craft.

As can be seen by the comparison image below, the match is clearly not 100% (which I thought at the time could be ascribed to the deficiencies in memory recall of 'unfamiliar writing' and the fact that these characters were hand-drawn). However, there are quite a few design elements /features of the characters which seemed similar (in my opinion). This comparison formed the basis of my original post regarding the matter.

However, if Jesse Marcel Jr looks at this comparison image and sees no similarities, then obviously... I'm wrong and there is no association between the Isaac CARET - LAP and the Roswell crash debris. I wonder if Jesse would take a second, more detailed look?

(By the way, I would not necessarily expect the shape of the I-beam itself to be similar... since they each may serve different functions, or relate to different craft etc. So I am only interested in the potential resemblance of the symbols.)

(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/iamiamiam_photos/Marcelbeam_caret_comparison3.jpg)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: iamiamiam February 18, 2011, 08:42:16 AM
... we will not seek to improve our standing.  When time permits we will place things that may or not be of interest to you.  ...  This is the last time we will waist our time with this.
L E V I A T H A N

Unfortunately, I fail to see the relevance of your post to the subject matter. Your attention-seeking agenda will not be of interest to me.

Finally - thank you for no longer wasting time.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 18, 2011, 01:28:59 PM
Another famous case looks to bear even stronger resemblance to the 2007 drone symbols
if one is so inclined to look at it critically.

Apparently, she (Betty Hill) saw (or was shown) these symbols on a book when she was abducted.

(http://www.gizapyramid.com/Betty_Hill_Drawing.jpg)

(from CAPTURED! by Stanton T. Friedman and Kathleen Marden, 2007, p289)



And I found a couple more I-beam characters drawn and signed off on by Jesse Marcel Senior:

(http://www.gizapyramid.com/Marcel_Sr._Drawing.jpg)

(from For The Sake of My Country by Linda G. Corley, Ph.D., 2006, p16)


Perhaps more linkages are to appear with perceived alien symbol commonalities.

~P
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 18, 2011, 08:04:35 PM
Good, then no reply is necessary.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: iamiamiam February 20, 2011, 11:02:49 AM
Agreed.

Another famous case looks to bear even stronger resemblance to the 2007 drone symbols
if one is so inclined to look at it critically.

Apparently, she (Betty Hill) saw (or was shown) these symbols on a book when she was abducted.

http://www.gizapyramid.com/Betty_Hill_Drawing.jpg (http://www.gizapyramid.com/Betty_Hill_Drawing.jpg)

(from CAPTURED! by Stanton T. Friedman and Kathleen Marden, 2007, p289)

Thanks Prosopon. I haven't read the book 'Captured' so I don't have too much information on this drawing. Did Betty Hill describe in any detail the nature of the book that was given to her?

For completeness, I've compared the design elements of the CARET / LAP symbols to those recalled by Betty Hill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_and_Barney_Hill_abduction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_and_Barney_Hill_abduction)


(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/iamiamiam_photos/Betty_Hill_CARET_LAP_Comparison.jpg)
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 21, 2011, 04:27:04 AM
Sorry I do not follow your graphic.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas February 21, 2011, 04:52:05 AM
Thanks for the comparison graphic, Iam.

 It doesn't surprise me that these three encounters reveal a similar script.  Isaac took effort to explain that these symbols activate various aspects of the craft.  Therefore I would expect to see them on many alien space craft...even from different civilizations.

Extraterrestrials are thousands, if not millions of years more advanced than we are.
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 21, 2011, 04:57:12 AM
Saying that these scripts are similar seems a stretch.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 21, 2011, 05:05:54 AM
iamiamiam asked this:
"Thanks Prosopon. I haven't read the book 'Captured' so I don't have too much information on this drawing. Did Betty Hill describe in any detail the nature of the book that was given to her?"


Unfortunately iam..., I do not have the book available to reference as I loaned it out some time ago and it was never returned. Other books in my collection reveal no more data other than what is written in the otherwise blank margins of that photo of the sketched alien writing.

I do not recall any more specifics about Betty Hills 'souvenir' book that the aliens wanted to give her nor do I recall her telling more after listening to her recorded audiotapes.

The University of New Hampshire library archives houses almost all of the Hill's case records and can be found here:

http://www.library.unh.edu/special/index.php/betty-and-barney-hill (http://www.library.unh.edu/special/index.php/betty-and-barney-hill)

ORIGINAL CASEFILE DOCUMENTS


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-_OMl505-tM/SsKdp3u9CCI/AAAAAAAADlM/6fG9o3_MXcg/s1600/Betty_Barney_Hill_9_OTIS.JPG)


: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 21, 2011, 05:29:03 AM
The  " aliens" did not want to give her a book, she asked to have one.  Look it up in the original book.  BTW we will continue.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Prosopon February 21, 2011, 03:06:16 PM
LEVIATHAN(S)…

Perform the research well.  That is my standard.

You say “original book.” Since you failed to name it, or give citations or other specifics, concerns are that it possibly might not be the most valid source of information extant.

There has been much documentation gathered about this case in various media: books, reports, articles, recorded hypnosis sessions, and so on. Also a movie with Estelle Parsons as Betty Hill amongst the lot.

But for the sake accuracy and not lying or simply fabricating misleading words, I will just proffer two online references supporting information previously given:


@UFO CLEARINGHOUSE

“Betty engaged the beings in conversation and seemed to have more reign when aboard the craft. She was shown a star map and given a book. After some conversations among the beings, it was decided that she would not be allowed to leave with the book.”

http://ufoclearinghouse.webs.com/classicufocases.htm (http://ufoclearinghouse.webs.com/classicufocases.htm)




@ALIEN UFO RESEARCH

“She had asked where they were from and they showed her a map of the star system and also asked if she could take home a souvenir which they said yes and then changed there mind and took back the book they were going to give her.

http://alien-ufo-research.com/betty_and_barney_hill/ (http://alien-ufo-research.com/betty_and_barney_hill/)


: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: Douglas February 21, 2011, 08:10:52 PM
yes, Prosopon, this is the version I heard Betty say with her own words:


â??I had asked where they were from and they showed me a map of the star system and I also asked if I could take home a souvenir so I could have some proof of my visit which they said yes.  A minute later I could see the being in charge having an very animated conversation with the others.  He then came back  over to me   and said the others objected [to me having the book] and they had changed their mind and took back the book they were going to give me.â?  Betty Hill
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 21, 2011, 11:50:45 PM
We stand corrected.
L E V I A T H A N
: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: iamiamiam February 23, 2011, 12:00:32 PM
No surprise really.

I made the symbol comparison because I had not seen it done to any extent... matching errors may be due to the fact that memory recall for an unfamiliar character set is extremely difficult especially after a period of time, the characters may have just been poorly drawn ... or there may be no match at all! With that in mind, the comparison of the design elements proves very little. I simply found it interesting. So make of it what you will.

I think any further discussion of Betty Hill's account deserves it's own thread... since this one has gone off topic.

: Re: Bob Lazar - UFO - Propulsion - S-4, Area 51
: The Leviathan February 23, 2011, 07:18:27 PM
No surprise really.
Same here, and we do understand, but we will continue.
L E V I A T H A N