Author Topic: Re: Avalon apartments analysis  (Read 36805 times)

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Offline 10538

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2009, 07:12:37 PM »
I was thinking about this whole thing last night.  About the Capitola substitution for Campbell.  I recalled the times I lamented there were not enough landmarks in the Raj pics to find him and that it likely was that way on purpose.

Then I thought how Raj has underestimated the intelligence and determination of the online community.  As I looked at his pict 14 with the corner and downspout it shows, I could not help but think to myself, "Raj, you screwed up dude.  You left us too many clues".   ;)


Offline spf33

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2009, 08:43:09 PM »
ok, i tweaked this scene with the proper north orientation.
numbers' building #3 has the closest match;



here's a close a close up of what's happening:



since this puts the camera in the middle of the car port, i'm going to guess that the error tolerance is 4'-7'.  puts the camera then in the driveway or the sidewalk.

also, would be beneficial for the minolta dimage to make the trip to campbell and take some test shots.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 08:44:36 PM by spf33 »

Offline nekitamo

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2009, 10:30:35 PM »
Happy New Year, everybody! :)

Took some time just to browse through all new images, so many of them. Here's a contrast-enhancement of pict#14 showing we are indeed dealing with the same type of gutter/downspout, I didn't notice those horizontal lines on the gutter before:



Also, on the right side: let's not forget that some images may have been flipped - it happened before in this case!

Offline elevenaugust

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2009, 10:38:40 PM »
Thanks Neki.
I have some problem actually to figure out how to line up the trees with the gutter, looking at Frank/Tom photos.
Any ideas?
IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line! www.ipaco.fr

Offline HPO

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2009, 11:00:55 PM »
Happy New Year, everybody! :)

Also, on the right side: let's not forget that some images may have been flipped - it happened before in this case!

Happy new year nekitamo

Yes, this also crossed my mind, could one or two of the pictures have been flipped.
But this also means a composite picture then, because the drone is in the good orientation in those pictures.
 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 11:04:34 PM by HPO »

Offline 10538

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2009, 11:42:21 PM »
Thanks Neki.
I have some problem actually to figure out how to line up the trees with the gutter, looking at Frank/Tom photos.
Any ideas?

I believe it is because we have not yet received a pic of the exact downspout yet.  There are many like that in this complex.




Offline nekitamo

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2009, 01:09:24 AM »
I have some problem actually to figure out how to line up the trees with the gutter, looking at Frank/Tom photos.
Any ideas?

Not sure what you mean, but I find this image pretty close in emulating Raj's pict #13 in regards of sizes and distances - ok, except for missing foliage and obviously wrong building and gutters. :)


Offline elevenaugust

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2009, 01:26:40 AM »
Sorry for my bad English.....sometimes ;D

Here's my take on this:


I guess the photographer need to be a little more on the right. But in this case, we should also see the balcony in Raj's picture, which is not the case....

Could the gutter have been changed too?
IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line! www.ipaco.fr

Offline 10538

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2009, 01:55:33 AM »
ok, i tweaked this scene with the proper north orientation.
numbers' building #3 has the closest match

Here what I found.  First I line up my compass with the city street.  I trust the city engineers more than I trust google. 

Here is the azimuth data I got from the naval website calculator



I went back the Spf's downspout shadow calculations where he came up with a 27 degree angle.  Adding the 27 degrees to the 3.8 degrees off west (270 degrees) and we get an overall angle of 30.8 degrees if the camera's was accurate and had been adjusted for daylight savings time.  That puts it right between buildings 2 and 4. (I came up with a better building numbering system.  Is this OK?)

If we instead calculate for the camera NOT being adjusted for daylight savings time (in my opinion is very likely) 27 + 12.3 = 39.3 degrees which puts it closest to building 3.  Building one is the least likely either way.  There are two gable roof balconies on building 3 with the one in back having taller trees.



If I have any mistakes please feel free to correct me.


Offline onthefence

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2009, 03:29:39 AM »
In all the excitement, I forgot to add the first 12 pictures that Tom took on December 29. Here is the updated list:

http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound001.jpg
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound002.jpg
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound003.jpg
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound004.jpg
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound005.jpg Business located directly across the street from the pole
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound006.jpg Business located across the street and to the east.
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound007.jpg Further east down the street.  I am standing in front of The Pole.
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound008.jpg The Pole is to the right or west of picture.
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound009.jpg Picture of The Pole from across the street.
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound010.jpg Picture of the pole from driveway which runs south off Kennedy
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound011.jpg Picture of across the street from The Pole to the west, notice the residential houses.
http://droneteam.com/history/raj/location/ThePoleFound012.jpg Picture (zoomed in) east of pole down the street.  Similar to #15

I have also updated my original post with all the PI pictures.

Offline spf33

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2009, 05:43:50 AM »
Here what I found.

maybe i'm too wrapped up in 3d to understand what you are doing in 2d.

what does measuring the angles of the buildings have to with the 27° sun altitude?

also i don't understand: "Adding the 27 degrees to the 3.8 degrees off west (270 degrees) and we get an overall angle of 30.8 degrees".  where are you getting 3.8° and why are you adding it.

just trying to figure out the discrepancies between our results. 


Offline 10538

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2009, 06:21:02 AM »
maybe i'm too wrapped up in 3d to understand what you are doing in 2d.

what does measuring the angles of the buildings have to with the 27° sun altitude?

also i don't understand: "Adding the 27 degrees to the 3.8 degrees off west (270 degrees) and we get an overall angle of 30.8 degrees".  where are you getting 3.8° and why are you adding it.

just trying to figure out the discrepancies between our results. 

Thanks Spf,

I also see my mistake.  I evidently misunderstood your previous analysis.  You did figure 27 for the altitude.  But the naval chart already told us 27 was the altitude.  So I guess it did confirm the the exif timestamp as being pretty much accurate.  It does confirm one important piece of data. The Raj camera did have it's time corrected for daylight savings time.  Woo hoo! That means the correct sun angle at that time was 273.8 degrees.

I wanted to find a different angle like the one Neki posted about.  I'm doing it now but I'm not sure how accurate it will be.  Maybe one of you can do a better job. 

« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 06:57:30 AM by 10538 »

Offline 10538

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2009, 06:36:42 AM »
Here is the graphic Neki posted which illustrates the angle I'd like to know.



Here I have modified Neki's graphic to show what I was trying to accomplish.





« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 06:56:36 AM by 10538 »

Offline 10538

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2009, 07:50:23 AM »
OK.  I just did the measurements from the Raj pict 14 of the shadow.  Here's is what I come up with. 

Angle #1     from the naval chart is 3.8°

Angle #2     I have measured and calculated to be 23.11°

So the overall angle off due west is 26.91°

So it looks to me that the closest match is building 4 now.

Now to figure out why he ran past the pict 15 pole and turned around to get the shot.  My theory is he could lost sight of it or it made erratic maneuvers.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 08:59:44 PM by 10538 »

Offline onthefence

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Re: Avalon apartments analysis
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2009, 01:28:13 PM »
To assist with camera placement identification when anyone goes on site. The angle of viewing can be determined by positioning yourself so that the downspout looks identical to PICT13/14.

The following unscaled images show that "Raj" did not move his position or change zoom levels between shots, only the camera was rotated and/or tilted:



For estimating position on site:
Closer/further from the down-spout is adjusted by the ratio viewable of vertical to horizontal down-spout pieces. As measured in the above image.

Left to right position determined by amount of roof seen on the left side.

It might be best to view this through a camera viewfinder, because your eyes may interpret 3D sizes beyond what PICT13/14 shows.