Author Topic: Tungstene and photo-interpretation  (Read 6214 times)

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Offline elevenaugust

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Tungstene and photo-interpretation
« on: November 10, 2011, 04:52:42 PM »
Ok, it's been almost four years now that I begun to work with you on the drone case. I've learnt much about photos and technics on how recognize fakes, misinterpretations, etc....

I've also met incredible and nice people all around the world and made friends, here and on other forums as well.

I thought that it could be a good idea to perpetuate this spirit of analysis, and studious and meticulous work as a team that has prevailed here so far, and then going one step further.

I recently worked with François Louange (who was an expert associated to the French UFO official study organization - GEPAN, and SEPRA and actually work as a freelance analysist) about a strange case that was shown in a French TV show; to make it short, that was about a contrail seen in front of the low horizon moon and that moved in a strange way for almost two minutes in front of the moon disk. The solution was found after interesting discuss (of course, it was about perspective and very far away observation) between me and François Louange.
This case led me to search for any recent work about a possible analysis software that could go deeper than ever in any UFO photograph analysis. One project was above all the other: Tungstene...

Roger Cozien, French mathematics Phd and former criminology expert, presented in 2010 May at the French National Assembly a software called Tungstene, which should make possible to know if a photo has been altered in any way.

For Mister Cozien and for the deputy Valérie Boyer as well, at the origin of a law project for the reporting of people whose appearance has been altered by image tampering, this is an end to the lie about the photos forgeries that our society had too long and too often tolerated .

One can cite the "gummed beads" celebrities that impose a new standard for the teens and push them to anorexia, or the missile that magically appeared on a picture of war on the front page of a grand public magazine to make the scene more dramatic and increase sales....
But it must also serve in the judicial field as well, like that was the case during a recent lawsuit against a rugby player in Ireland, with the photo that involved him and that, in fact, was tampered with.

If this technology developed by the company eXo makina remains restricted to large structures due to its cost (+/- 50.000$ actually...) and special training for its use, a large public version is scheduled.
It also worth a note that the company is working on another similar technology, but for videos studies.

SOURCE (in french)

Tungstene site

Examples:










French press agency AFP recently bought the software.

As for analysis a single photograph, the price is around 580$.
We thought, with Didier de Plaige and the others French forum Administrators that it could be useful, for a try, to see how it works and to submit one drone photograph to this analyst...
Then, a subscription is made and the cost is around 70$ (maybe less, it depends on how many people agree to participate) per person.
French support is already in place and fund proposals have been made.

Beside this analysis of a drone photo and the results, I would like to go further and leverage my friends support network within the U.S. and French UFO community.
Buying a license for this software (if we deem reliable and interesting result of analysis of a drone photo-test) could represent an unprecedented step forward in the studies of UFO photographs.
I understand that the cost may seem prohibitive, but a lighter version is under consideration by Mr Cozien; and in addition, the more the support is important, the less the cost is for each...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:55:07 PM by elevenaugust »
IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line! www.ipaco.fr

Offline elevenaugust

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Re: Tungstene and photo-interpretation
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 04:53:42 PM »
Some progress in my project, here's what I've posted in many UFO forums:

I decided to go further and see if this software (or some other similar) could really help in our understanding/analysis of UFO documents, i-e photos and videos.

First step for me was to contact Mr Cozien, the French Maths PhD who created "Tungstene", in Paris, at the end of September.


Mr Cozien and "Tungstene"

I'll not fully detailled neither what Tungstene is nor how it works here, as I prepare a full presentation of it (and another called "IPACO") both in French and in English to be posted here before the end of November.

However, what i can say is that:
1- It compiles a lot of known maths filters
2- It has an intuitive and attractive interface
3- In most cases, it gives a good indication whether the photo has been manipulated or not however
4- It absolutely don't have to be an end by itself, I mean that only a thorough and serious investigation can give credits to the results. In other words, an analysis done by Tungstene alone have zero credit, and usuals methods for an UFO investigation are needed.

See also this interesting and complete article about Tungstene here


Tungsten allows the user to analyze the way and the propagation of the light on an image in order to check the consistency of the informations.

What I obtained from Mr Cozien after our meeting is:
1- The principle to buy the software licence and the right to have full ownership for the results
2- Due to the very restricted field of study, a "low cost" software, around 20.000$, divided in 10.000$ for the software itself and also 10.000$ for a full week of formation, which is essential for a good control of the capacities of Tungstene.

Back at home, I remembered that there was another imaging specialist in France, well known in the UFO field: François Louange. (Full biography in French here)
Louange is an engineer who worked as an imagery expert for the GEPAN (CNES) and the ESA.
In 1989 he founded and was CEO of Fleximage corporation, specialized in photo-interpretation by computer, providing all the French secret service, as well as lots of European countries, which allow softwares to work on images taken by satellites and other sensors. Subsequently Fleximage, holding 95% of the photo-interpretation market's in France and other countries, become an affiliate of ESA (European Space Agency).



François Louange also participated to the Pocantico symposium who took place from the 29th september to the 4th october 1997, as a scientist.
It was organized at the initiative of Rockefeller (and headed by Sturrock) and in which he participated, with Velasco, Vallee and Veyret, among many others researchers. This symposium was intended to take again Condon report's conclusions to try to contradict one of it, in which it was said, in substance, that the UFO phenomenon was not worth any scientifical study.
Thanks to the substantive diplomatic work of Peter Sturrock, it ended with a consensus that was far from a foregone conclusion, as there was so much various point of view on the matter.....
Full report of the Pocantico symposium can be seen here


From left to right: T. Holzer, V. Eshleman, Rodeghier, Schuessler, H. Melosh, J. Jokipii, H. Puthoff, D. Pritchard, Sturrock, C. Tolbert, F. Louange, Laurance Rockefeller, Vélasco, I. von Ludwiger, H. Diamond, M. Sims, J. Vallée, B. Haisch, B. Veyret, Haines, Swords, J. Papike, G. Reitz, E. Strand

We also talked about many famous UFO cases, including "Petit Rechain" in Belgium, which we now know that it was a hoax.

Then, the state of research in France has been mentioned and I came to realize how much he was happy to talk to someone on the photo/video analysis subject, which, from his own mouth "does not happen every day";
Louange, although officially retired, continues to gradually develop its specialized analysis software "IPACO" (version 2.19 as of today)
He made me a demo and gave me a CD with software and a license key valid until the end of the year.


IPACO graphic interface

I told him about my meeting with Mr Cozien, the cost of the software and my plan to conciliate on solid basis (which does not yet exist) the UFO world and the one, more scientific, of photographic analysis.
What interests Louange is my excellent contact among the ufology characters, that he do not have (he do not go on forums, blogs and do not follow closely UFO news).

Going back to its software, it is developed in three phases:
1 - Materials for picture analysis
2 - Materials for video analysis
3 - Establishment of databases: UFOCAT (based on "UFOCAT" from Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos), IFOCAT and CAMCAT (cameras and camcorders database)
François Louange is actually at the development of phase three.

I must also say that I am both surprised and flattered by the confidence that Mr Louange put in me, which proves that it is still quite possible to be able to do some good job based on reciprocal and mutual trusted relationships.

Compared to those of Mr Cozien, its software uses less powerful mathematical filters, leaving a greater share in logical reasoning and scientific interpretation than Tungstene, which is more like a "turnkey" supplied product.

In short and in conclusion, I would say that my trip wasn't vain. Many positive things came out of these meetings and I now have good raw material to work with confidence. :)

As I have already explained many times here and on other French and English speaking forums, I think, and it is a constant since I'm in the UFO field, that there's still lack of education, seriousness, professionalism, in the study of UFO documents.
It goes without saying that very few ufologists in the world are specialized in this area and, when they are, they also lack the tools, that could be able to help to support them in their efforts to unravel facts from fictions and fakes
I started, some years ago, a substantive work and education on most UFO forums/blogs in French and English, but I think I have reached the limits of what I could show; now I miss many powerful tools designed to help to detect fakes.

IPACO, like Tungstene, in my opinion, are certainly such tools, from what I saw from Mr Louange and Mr Cozien, they are fast, efficient and scalable, although different in their practice with the user interface, IPACO being simpliest to use.



In short, my goal, to today's date, can be summarized in three points:
1 - Make a detailed and objective presentation, as far as possible, of the capabilities, possibilities and techniques used of both softwares dedicated to forensic analysis, and supported with concrete examples such as the already existing studies of UFO photographic documents.
[Incidentally, a technical connection with the operation of the license proposed by Mr Cozien is that I'm not operator of this license on behalf of Tungstene or owner of such license, but only the owner of the analysis results. I'm then free to do what I want with these results; to get paid for the work done, for example.]
2 - Present this document to all my contacts in the UFO world (who know me also for my analysis work done here, for the MUFON and some others ...) specifying them that I have now much more powerful tools able to help me to do this work more thoroughly and professionally, and opening a subscription (or using an existing one) to help me to buy the rights to operate a license (either Tungstene or IPACO).
3 - If points 1 and 2 take place without problems and if I succeed in interesting enough subscribers to my project, the purchase and operation of the license will follow, with either the opening of a new specialized Internet site or a dedicated section in an existing forum / blog dedicated to photographic analysis, and the opportunity for private organizations or UFO independant researchers of ordering.

So, here's, quickly and roughly outlined, what I intend to do in the future, the most difficult point is obviously to raise enough money to buy a license ...
But hey, there already has been generous subscribers in France who helped me to finance the necessary travels to meet people, so I do not despair!

Of course, I'm opened to any suggestion, opinion and comment; I'll do my best to try to answer any of these.

:)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 04:54:46 PM by elevenaugust »
IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line! www.ipaco.fr

Offline elevenaugust

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Re: Tungstene and photo-interpretation
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 09:36:40 AM »
Dear fellow DRT members and friends!

I'm proud to announce you the next step in my project: the dedicated site to UFO photos and video analysis will be on-line on the 22 this month.

With the help of François Louange, the creator of the IPACO software, it's an outcome of a long-term project that begun with the drone photos case, here.

I'll put the link to the site and forum here as well.

Any comment, opinions and criticisms are welcome! :)
IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line! www.ipaco.fr

Offline 10538

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Re: Tungstene and photo-interpretation
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 11:23:09 PM »
Hi 11A,

So will you be able arrange to have analysis done on the drone photos and a conclusion drawn on them by these experts?

Offline elevenaugust

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Re: Tungstene and photo-interpretation
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 07:21:23 PM »
Hi 11A,

So will you be able arrange to have analysis done on the drone photos and a conclusion drawn on them by these experts?
Well, I will see what I can do with IPACO on the drones photos, most likely before the end of the year.

Anyway, I'll write a short report about photo-analysis experts (using Tungstene and IPACO) conclusions for everyone here.
IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line! www.ipaco.fr

Offline elevenaugust

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Re: Tungstene and photo-interpretation
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 02:02:13 PM »
Dear friends,

The IPACO Internet site dedicated to the UFO photos and video analysis is now open!

Please, check it out there:

ipaco
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 02:07:22 PM by elevenaugust »
IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line! www.ipaco.fr