Author Topic: Spf33 - May 23rd  (Read 14943 times)

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Online Nemo492

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Spf33 - May 23rd
« on: May 25, 2008, 09:12:03 PM »
Nekitamo suggested the position of the drone's shadow.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 10:35:16 PM by Nemo492 »
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Offline nekitamo

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Re: Nekitamo - May 23rd
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2008, 09:56:02 PM »
To avoid eventual confusion: it was spf33 who did the above 3D graphics, I only suggested the position of the drone's shadow to him!

Offline spf33

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 01:15:39 AM »
a little more info about this illustration.

the terrain geometry was downloaded from the usgs here as 1:24,000-Scale (7.5-minute) Digital Elevation Model data.  this data was then imported into microdem and exported to 3ds format then finally imported into 3ds max

-sun angle\position and camera data calculated from photo's exif data and now known latitude\longitude.
-drone size estimate based on elevenaugust's size estimate for item #16 on isaac's inventory review (estimated size determines distance from camera).
-3d camera placement determined by on site measurements and photos. 
-distance measurements determined by on site laser range finder.

this series is still very much a work in progress at this point and things could change as new info comes...or when i suddenly realize i'm working in feet instead of yards.

the interesting thing here is that before setting this file up i wanted to apply elevenaugust's ir size estimate as a starting point.  and i did.
but mistakenly worked the scene with the #16 ring at 10'4' radius instead of diameter.  this put the drone at near 2000'
from the camera. 

it wasn't until nekitamo asked me to look for the shadow in the 3d scene that i realized i had the ring scale wrong.
when i scaled the ring down correctly it had to move closer towards the camera to match the photo.

i blinked a few times when i saw that the estimated shadow fell right onto to the same tree that nekitamo suggested.

Offline spf33

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2008, 08:08:32 AM »
more:




« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 03:38:35 PM by spf33 »

Offline leviathan

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 01:14:35 AM »
Now this is research and gives usable results instead of the endless waste of one-sided debate.  Excellent work spf33.
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Offline spf33

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 04:22:48 PM »
thanks, lev.

here's the issue i'm concerned with at the moment;



the whole 3d drone seems to need to be tilted about 5-7 degrees to match the photo.
it seems odd to me that it needs to be tilted exactly perpendicular to the camera plane because the long central shaft i is vertically straight in the photo.

Offline 10538

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2008, 12:08:24 AM »
Spf,

Maybe I don't understand, but why is a tilted drone a problem?

Offline HJ

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 12:26:25 AM »
My question too but also we can't be sure that the rings don't swivel either. That would allow a ring to "not line up" with the center line but maybe I'm misunderstanding the statement.

HJ
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 12:28:39 AM by HJ »

Offline spf33

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 01:51:24 AM »
well.  i guess it's not really a problem until i say the perspective of the drone does not match the rest of the photograph.
right now, i think it's just odd...
i have the file open and i'm trying to figure out the best way to visually present what i'm thinking and seeing.












Offline 10538

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2008, 03:44:26 AM »
My question too but also we can't be sure that the rings don't swivel either. That would allow a ring to "not line up" with the center line but maybe I'm misunderstanding the statement.

HJ

I agree.  We've already seen how one of the cage bars is not all the way closed.  Not that I'm trying to be a drone cheer leader but wouldn't misalignments of this type lead away from a cgi explanation?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 03:50:03 AM by 10538 »

Offline spf33

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2008, 04:20:07 AM »
ok, maybe what's bothering me is that not only does the drone need to tilt, when it appears that all of the other photos of drones show it more or less level to the ground, but also that the tilting was directly in line with the photographer\camera.

maybe this helps, maybe not;


« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 04:28:55 AM by spf33 »

Offline nekitamo

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2008, 08:58:20 AM »
I believe I understand what spf33 is trying to say, it is indeed strange that drone's spatial orientation should favor Stephen's observing position (ok, and the opposite one) out of so many other directions from which it would appear tilted. The fact that this isn't obvious until you do some serious 3D analysis doesn't help, too.

If we consider this as an adjustment indicative of a cut&paste job, the question is was someone trying to make it look straight, to align shadows or both? If it's both that's another dead end, but if it's only about making it look straight, the shadows could be wrong and perhaps this could be noticed with the better 3D model of the drone?

I hope Kris will agree to share his model...

Offline 10538

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2008, 04:20:16 PM »
ok, maybe what's bothering me is that not only does the drone need to tilt, when it appears that all of the other photos of drones show it more or less level to the ground, but also that the tilting was directly in line with the photographer\camera.

maybe this helps, maybe not;




Hi Spf,

When I look at the second Stephen photo it looks tilted back almost directly away from the camera but it also appears to be very slightly tilted to the right.  If I draw a line precisely through the center spike at the bottom, the line is not straight but has a very small angle (with respect to the photo).

Is the BB drone is aligned with the camera?  Or is the camera aligned with the drone?

When you say "all the other photos of the drones" do you include all the Ty, Raj and Chad photos?  I should look at the tilt of the rest.

How about this one?  Is this one level?



Offline spf33

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2008, 04:46:29 PM »

When I look at the second Stephen photo it looks tilted back almost directly away from the camera but it also appears to be very slightly tilted to the right.


do you mean steven's actual photo or my rendered illustration?  if the later, it's
just sloppy positioning on my part, i don't think it affects the results much.

Quote
Is the BB drone is aligned with the camera?  Or is the camera aligned with the drone?

did the action of taking the photo tilt the drone?
did the eos 350d have some sort of infrared auto focus assist engaged that the drone responded to?

Quote
When you say "all the other photos of the drones" do you include all the Ty, Raj and Chad photos?

i dunno, is that too much of a generalization?
i'm just not seeing that extreme of a tilt in any of the other photos. 

Quote
How about this one?  Is this one level?

simply looking at the photo it seems level to me.
but i'll reserve my answer because this one is on tap for a 3d study since we have known location and measurements.


Offline 10538

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Re: Spf33 - May 23rd
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2008, 04:58:17 PM »
do you mean steven's actual photo or my rendered illustration?  if the later, it's
just sloppy positioning on my part, i don't think it affects the results much.
Stephen's 2nd photo.  It's the one that has the clear shot of the drone.

Quote
did the action of taking the photo tilt the drone?
did the eos 350d have some sort of infrared auto focus assist engaged that the drone responded to?
Sorry.  What I meant was, could Stephen, when he realized the drone and focused on it, aligned the camera with it as opposed to the landscape?