Author Topic: Is anyone still here?  (Read 401 times)

Offline Ipsy

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Is anyone still here?
« on: March 27, 2019, 05:05:22 PM »
Twelve years after the event, this mystery continues to occupy my curiosity. Does anyone else still follow it, think about it? Anyone keeping an eye out for new clues that might shed fresh light on this old subject? Anyone watching this group?

Offline onthefence

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2019, 06:28:51 PM »
Still watching, but my thoughts are completely different than before. I had hopes that it might be real and tried to be impartial and give "witnesses" the opportunity to prove their point. In the end, all we have is people that say "I know what I saw", and from the beginning, Isaac/raj/etc providing artwork from the Empire state building (circa 1930) as if it was alien control panels.

Sure would be nice to hear from "Isaac/Raj" about the real reason the did this, or see the remaining high def photos that LMH thinks will ensure the validity on the case.

Fun for the imagination though!

Offline Ipsy

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2019, 10:23:25 PM »
I still believe there is more to it than was ever uncovered by all who have investigated. The sheer depth of the details, the discovered locations, the amount of effort that would have been necessary to fake the whole thing (and to what end?). It seems like a real event. The surface was scratched but every lead was a dead end. Out of all the evidence, and this case has orders of magnitude more clear evidence, photos, witnesses, testimony, and PHD level analysis of evidence in many instances than most ufo events, nothing to my knowledge was ever discovered that could clearly determine it to be a hoax.

The photos alone are good enough to give me serious pause. I'm a photography and digital imaging professional and absolutely none of the refutation of the photos by other so called digital photo experts was close to good enough for me. Remember smartphones didn't exist in 2007 (the first iPhone didn't come out until late 2007) and digital photography and computer imaging technologies were quiet different than they are now. The analysis of the Ty photos showed an almost imperceptible amount of barrel distortion across the entire photo which would have increased the difficulty of producing such an image with cgi and yet added almost nothing to photo quality.

I'm not aware of the Empire State Bldg artwork, or I've forgot it's significance. I will look into that.

I feel like the raj sighting, which I believe was the last photo witness, followed by the Isaac testimony and materials might hold a clue.

I still toss around a number of theories about it all, but one is that the first few photo witnesses may have been authentic, but Isaac (and possibly raj) were somehow fabricated, perhaps with real photos and some real information, with the intent to water down or distract from the original real witnesses. Of course I can't put it all together in my mind how or exactly why they might do this, but it's an interesting theory to me. Assuming these machines are real, whoever is in charge of keeping a lid on it all may have quickly implemented a plan to silence or hide the original witnesses, inject Isaac into the story as a way to control the narrative, and misdirect away from any real truth about the project. I believe Isaacs photos are real, but his story may not be.

Regardless, this mystery has been one that I've never been able to shake. It's just so deep. Even if the truth is not what it was presented to be, whatever the underlying story really is must be at least as interesting as what we do know. There must be much much more to this than one or a few people perpetrating a hoax. Even if that's what the truth is, it would be such a tremendously successful hoax, that alone would be a fascinating story if said hoaxer(s) ever came forward with proof and an explanation.

I guess this will haunt me for the rest of my days if nothing more ever comes of it.

Offline onthefence

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2019, 10:44:02 PM »
Thank you for your comments and reminders.

Here is the Empire State building information found on 2017-03-18:
  https://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=880.msg10098#msg10098

Offline Ipsy

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2019, 11:26:58 PM »
Thanks for the link. I was actually just perusing the images and I do recall seeing this before. The similarities are certainly remarkable, very very uncanny if it were a coincidence.

I don't want to sound like one of those people that is trying too hard to convince their self of the objectivity they WANT to believe. Because what I actually want is to gain enough insight or discover that one piece of evidence that undeniably confirms the truth on either side of the fence. I'd rather know for certain that it was all fake, than perpetually hang on to a belief that it might be real.

But having said that, as impressively similar as the Empire State Building artwork is to the LAP diagrams and markings in the drone photos, it isn't an exact duplication. None of the shapes are precisely identical. The ESB artwork clearly has a strong art-deco style that is not present in the drone articles. If the person responsible for the drone/LAP drawings were inspired by the ESB artwork, they still had to painstakingly recreate it, so why would they deliberately make it so similar? Perhaps that is a clue to a possible hoaxer's motivation.

Or, if the restoration of the ESB artwork is faithful to the original, perhaps the original artist was a witness to the drones pre 1930s, and the ESB artwork may have been inspired by the drones. Who knows? I'm not trying to justify or debunk the similarities in the artwork. They are definitely remarkable. I'm just trying to present an alternate perspective.

As I said before, I don't necessarily want to know that the drone mystery is all true, I just want to know what the truth IS, regardless of whether it's real or fake.

Offline onthefence

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 09:50:52 AM »
Yes, both ESB possibilities could be true. But it still revolves around possibilities. Honestly, I would love it to be all true. I think belief depends on a persons experiences. When I first started looking into the case, I did not have many people in my life that lied right to my face. As I proceeded through the case, I encountered so many provable lies from witnesses, and original testimony. In the end, the percentage of lies outweighed the possibilities. I know that statistics is not proof, but neither are possibilities.

Sure, I'd believe it if there was one real piece of evidence that can prove alien intelligence beyond human involvement. For example, lets see the A1 artifact in a museum levitating objects after it has been examined by scientists. So far, every bit of evidence produced has disappeared before coming to light. The whole case became more about faith than science for me.

Offline Ipsy

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 03:01:51 PM »
I totally get where you're coming from and truly appreciate that point of view. I've recognized in myself the same propensity toward such faith. I've always been a pragmatist though and constantly try to keep my bias from influencing empirical judgement.

I am a skeptic in the truest sense of the word. I simply don't know until I know. Most people define a skeptic as someone who begins from a position of disbelief and looks for evidence against an idea even when the idea is well founded. I stand right in the middle and look for evidence on both sides. To me belief in the rejection of an idea is just as valid as the belief in support of it.

I too would like to believe the drone reality, but more than that I'd really just like to know what the honest basis of truth is either way, in detail and with confident certainty. It is exhausting carrying such curiosity that can't be absolutely settled for this long. If I were to decide for myself right now to give up and pick a side to believe just to relieve the burden of my curiosity, I would choose to believe it's all fake. As you said, the lies and false information outweigh the crumbs of potential evidence to the contrary. In fact, my position on the whole matter evolved a great deal since the beginning of this saga when I felt strongly that it would all be true as presented. I no longer believe that. I believe there is a significant element of deception interwoven with some amount of reality.

My mind simply won't allow me to let it go. In a very real way, my belief is out of my own control. I think it's just the way my mind works. I'll never feel at peace with any stance I take on this or any controversial issue without very hard and clear evidence to base that stance on. Otherwise I will always wonder if I'm on the side of truth or not, and any amount of doubt always undermines belief. I fear I'm relegated to a life of nagging eternal curiosity.

Offline onthefence

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 03:32:52 PM »
Well said!

Like so many things in life, we'll never know the whole story.

Now where do we go from here? Is there anything productive that can be done, or should we just be satisfied with the lessons learned on the entertaining journey? Thanks Isaac for all the good times :)


Offline JMK

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 10:41:19 PM »
I appreciate the contributions of Ipsy and onthefence. At times I've been going back to the photos and documents also, to see if we missed something, somewhere. Trying to connect some dots. But as onthefence explains, something is very wrong here, and our investigations and common sense led us to this conclusion. There is definitely a corpse rotting close by, we just cannot see exactly where that is. So the drone saga was basically deserted through lack of credibility.

This forum only remains, I think, in the off chance that a witness with backbone comes to the fore, who stands up to be counted. Someone the likes of Kenneth Arnold, Travis Walton, Kenju Terauchi, Lonnie Zamora or Ray Bowyer and some of his fellow passengers, who were willing to defend their stories, without adding to them later on. With "witnesses" like the drones had, nothing of value is possible. It is not enough to drop a set of excellent graphics or photos on us, as the crucial human element has to be present to give it substance.

So the drones are mothballed, as nobody likes to be taken as a fool. For a new start a completely new infusion of some sort is necessary, which from the outset behaves differently. Not like "Raji" who gives us the false location of Capitola, and adds his Alfred Hitchcock nonsense to boot. Or Ty who supposedly has 7 fellow witnesses, who all evaporate.

Offline Ipsy

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2019, 06:19:17 PM »
Linda Howe still has high res photos and possible other info that she may one day decide to share. She also supposedly has Isaac's email address from 2007. Also, Isaac said he may decide to write more one day.

Linda? Isaac? No time like the present.

On a separate note. I ran across this video the other day (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm68QhQvtIE&t=2s) It's about a year old, so some of you may have seen it already, but this guy seems to think the whole drones story was some sort of well funded social art / anonymous / artistic performance thing. Interesting.

Offline onthefence

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 08:50:37 PM »
I ran across this video the other day (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm68QhQvtIE&t=2s)

Nice summary and trip down memory lane. Thanks.

Offline spf33

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Re: Is anyone still here?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 04:26:23 PM »
Still here, real or fake, still intrigued.  I visit every few weeks or so to see if there's anything new.

I always keep my eyes open.

Noticed this a few months ago:



Seems Alienware is still interested.

Screenshot from: https://youtu.be/yGoCMDrzCq0?t=329