Author Topic: Raj drone shadow study  (Read 12611 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 10538

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #2
  • **********
  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +33/-0
Raj drone shadow study
« on: June 12, 2008, 03:10:58 am »


The more I look at the Raj pics the more I am suspecting that two big questions have been answered.  First is Marvin's point about the appendage changing color between #16 and #17.  The second is Spf33's missing large arm shadow.

It seems the large arm shadow may have been found and it is on the side of the appendage in pic 16.  In pic 17 the drone has tilted and the large arm shadow falls a little lower.  The sunlight seems to come almost directly in line with the power lines.


« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 04:18:08 pm by 10538 »

Offline onthefence

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #3
  • **********
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +50/-0
Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2008, 04:03:44 am »
That "bracket" looks similar to the one shown in the "Isaac" inventory photo:


Offline leviathan

  • Major Dronie
  • ******
  • Posts: 290
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • L E V I A T H A N
Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2008, 04:16:50 am »
Very good observation otf.  So at what point does all this show that this is NOT CG!!!  Above, we posted a series of images, radiosity was used in the fakes and our enhancement tells us that real day light was used in the original Drone image.  Your observation is one more bit of DETAIL that is amazing in its complexity if it is not REAL.
IC
We at L E V I A T H A N were banned from the UFO Casebook Forum and it is so sad.
http://livyatan.blogspot.com/

Offline onthefence

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #3
  • **********
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +50/-0
Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2008, 04:30:12 am »
Your observation is one more bit of DETAIL that is amazing in its complexity if it is not REAL.

Haha, like 10538, I also did not post this in an appropriate thread. I see no argument for CG on that "bracket", just more confirmation that the "Isaac" submission contains bits that I never noticed until now on the Raj images. And yes, I'm not afraid to say that it looks more REAL to me.

Offline 10538

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #2
  • **********
  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +33/-0
Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2008, 06:19:57 am »
Here's my impression of how the shadows line up on this Raj photo. 
Notice how the panda shadow lines up with the shadows from the "teeth" at the bottom.


Offline nekitamo

  • Administrator
  • Major Dronie
  • **********
  • Posts: 224
  • Karma: +28/-0
Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2008, 08:55:51 am »
Great find, numbers!
I think you just solved Marvin's problem - IMO, now everything fits. Funny, it was right in front of our eyes all this time, but we all kept seeing a strip of darker color material instead of the tail-shadow. Now I can see the same is also true for PICT0017.

However, this reminds me - a small correction is in order here:



Although the sun is not visible in Raj's image, the shadows indicate where it would be if Raj's image was shot using a wider angle of view. I believe most of the so-called CG experts refer to this as "shadows are all wrong" case, but in fact there's nothing wrong with shadows that are not parallel to each other. The sun is a real object and not some imaginary, infinitely distant light source often used in CG programs - or maybe I'm wrong and the above image of the woods is also CG?

majicbar

  • Guest
Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 09:26:31 am »
The woods might be real, it might not. Do we have EXIF data for this woods shot? Is the photographer willing to come forward and swear to it in court? Where is this so called woods? What profit is this photographer trying to covet for himself? So many unanswered questions! And if one of these trees were to fall down, would he swear too that he heard it? Just how much are we to believe and how dumb do they think we really are?

Just having a bit of fun as the skeptics expense, sorry, certainly not meaning to offend, but the chance was there and I could not resist.

Offline tomi

  • Hero Dronie #2
  • ********
  • Posts: 668
  • Karma: +37/-26
Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 09:50:20 am »
Don't worry, your humor is a slight relief and very appreciated :P

Offline leviathan

  • Major Dronie
  • ******
  • Posts: 290
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • L E V I A T H A N
Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 02:16:08 pm »
BTW, these brackets have a similar look and feel to the brackets that appear to hold the small rings to the big ring on the BB Drone.  Our "CG Artist" is a genius for detail that will be discovered a year later. 
IC
We at L E V I A T H A N were banned from the UFO Casebook Forum and it is so sad.
http://livyatan.blogspot.com/

Offline 10538

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #2
  • **********
  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +33/-0
Re: Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2008, 05:25:14 am »
   
Here's more sun rays!   8)




Offline 10538

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #2
  • **********
  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +33/-0
Re: Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2008, 04:51:03 pm »
I believe most of the so-called CG experts refer to this as "shadows are all wrong" case

Who is it that's saying the shadows are all wrong?  Did they ever sight examples?

« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 05:07:13 pm by 10538 »

Offline leviathan

  • Major Dronie
  • ******
  • Posts: 290
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • L E V I A T H A N
Re: Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2008, 06:13:35 pm »
We have studyed these images for over a year and have built 50 plus models and partial models.  We are NINE (9) people in a group and are satisfied with the shadows and the, so far, uninhibited and "BULLY" free work done here.  This site is excellent, even though we are detecting some interesting new members, you here have produced great information and shown true skills in analysis.  We are using this info.  Look at the other forums, one in particular, and see for yourself what they have produced and their methods and their MODS (ugh!).  THERE ARE NO REAL DAYLIGHT PROBLEMS WITH THE SHADOWS.  Any problem, comes from the desperate attempt to say the Original Drone Images are COMPUTER GRAPHICS, because the shadows DO NOT fit rendering techniques used to simulate a real word environment because they are produced by REAL DAYLIGHT.  We have shown this in a graphic already.
L E V I A T H A N
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 06:15:52 pm by leviathan »
We at L E V I A T H A N were banned from the UFO Casebook Forum and it is so sad.
http://livyatan.blogspot.com/

Offline HPO

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #1
  • **********
  • Posts: 316
  • Karma: +27/-0
Re: Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2008, 10:03:09 pm »
Well I made a render to test the projection of the shadow from the arm (according the impression of 10538), I think your right about the roundness under the dark part, it could be a 'panda'.
I think I got shadows of all three of them on that part, I think that's because of the angle of the sun being not totally correct in my render.
But I still think there is a black part (a little bit to small in my CAD model), because in PICT0016 the sunlight is coming from the right, but still there is a black part.

I also noticed the socalled 'offsetting' of the panda's (a little less but it is still there) and the optical illusion that the arm is bending upwards.



-HPO-

Offline 10538

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #2
  • **********
  • Posts: 826
  • Karma: +33/-0
Re: Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2008, 01:10:56 am »
That's an impressive render, HPO.  I think it is the closest I have ever seen to the original.  I think you have successfully blown the offset panda theory out of the water.

But I'm not sure I agree with you about the black area on the side of the appendage still being present.  Pic 17 clearly shows no black area.  Why can't the dark area in pic 16 be the shadow from the long arm?  When I compare other shadowed areas of the drone I get a very close match to the appendage dark area.

Offline HPO

  • Administrator
  • Hero Dronie #1
  • **********
  • Posts: 316
  • Karma: +27/-0
Re: Raj drone shadow study
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2008, 06:56:49 am »
That's an impressive render, HPO.  I think it is the closest I have ever seen to the original.  I think you have successfully blown the offset panda theory out of the water.

Thanks ! but still not close enough.

But I'm not sure I agree with you about the black area on the side of the appendage still being present.  Pic 17 clearly shows no black area.  Why can't the dark area in pic 16 be the shadow from the long arm?  When I compare other shadowed areas of the drone I get a very close match to the appendage dark area.

Well because, like I wrote before, the sunlight is coming from the right in that picture, it's coming from ahead of the long arm, so the lightray's will go parallel with the arm and make no projection on that appendage.
I think the reason why you can see the difference in darkness in my render between the shadow and the dark part in de appendage, is because I think the darker area needs to be bigger in my model, and I also need to adjust the highlight properties of the material.
I think that's also the reason why you don't see that area in PICT0017, that's because of 'flashing' of the sunlight in that area.

-HPO-
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 07:23:48 am by HPO »